Was my play completely obvious to this opponent?

[NORM77]

Yea,

There is no need for you to get so attached to this hand, after Villian calls $15 on the turn, Id be done with this hand other then calling a small bet on the river. You can find better situations to get your money in against Party Poker Opponents.

Good Luck.

[jbright]

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folding to limps w/ A8o in the sb seems excessively tight to me. It's a very easy hand to dump if the flop doesn't hit two pair or better, and the one time you flop 88x against someone holding a smaller 8 will pay off hundreds of times you complete then check/fold the flop.

plus flopping two pair with this is often very profitable against LAG limpers holding AJ or AT.

obviously you have to be very careful b/c you're OOP, but if you know how to get away from a hand I think playing A8 from sb is +EV

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using that logic you should complete with anything. hell, limp with anything after a couple limpers...the times you flop a boat will pay off hugely more than all the blinds you called.

really, you're not going to flop 88X often enough...and not going to get paid enough when you do...to cover all the times you complete and miss. or complete and lose two pair to something. or complete and hit your 88X, but lose your stack to XX.

jbright....jeremy?

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A8o is very different from "any two", b/c you have the nut trips when you hit them, and with two pair you have either top two or top/bottom on a board likely to see some action b/c others will often have an ace. This is much stronger than from having trips weak kicker or bottom two pair. And if you think A8 w/ an 88x flop is dangerous b/c someone might have xx... well it's a lot less dangerous than TPTK, an AA or KK overpair, and just every other hand that we hope to get dealt in this game except the absolute nuts.

secondly completing the sb is not the same as limping. Say at a 1/2 table what you're saying is that with 100 hands where you've been dealt A8o in the sb, the best course is to fold every time and resign yourself to losing $100. Whereas outside the blinds, choosing not to limp 100 times you lose $0. So if from the sb you complete each time, win a few pots, and bring your losses up to only losing $50 total with the hand, you've made a good play... whereas losing a total of $50 outside the blinds w/ A8o is a negative play. I didn't explain that very well but I hope the point comes through.

We all agree that Ax is the most overplayed hand by poor players, but folding A8o in the sb to limpers, esp. if you feel you are one of the better players at the table, is just too tight imo.

I know it's not a monumental decision either way, but I'm curious to hear what others think.

[amoeba]

hi jbright I still disagree. We can't conclude that when we flop 88X we take somebody's stack. you don't have any disguise for the trips and you have to hope the X is an overcard to the 8. The times that 2 people have 8s in their hands and the flop comes 88X simply is not often enough to make up for the times I miss or the times I have to play A weak kicker out of position.

think about it this way. An A or an 8 flops 1/3 of the time. 1/6th of the time you have to play A weak kicker out of position. the other 1/6 of the time, you mostly have mid pair with the 8. the few times you get 2 pair or better, you don't get that much action.

I keep saying this but the reason AJ is that much worse than AK is not because when you flop the A, you are worried about kicker. Its because when you flop the J there are many times when thats not the top pair.

Same thing here.