5 Mistakes with James

[Evan]

What is your salutation going to become if the Pats lose on Sunday?

[krishanleong]

Here is a link to a thread.

link

[jonahmavesin]

Could you elaborate on that point? Limp EP but fold MP?

I imagine you mean because once you're MP you can see that you're not getting limpers. But at the same time, you also are more assured there will be no raises. I would imagine that is worth something as well.

I guess I'm arguing that I can see folding MP if you aren't seeing enough limp action, but that I don't see why you would limp it early just because you lack information on the action to come.

[krishanleong]

I only play small pp for set value.
I play them early because I'm assuming I'll get enough limpers. I don't play them late because I know I don't have enough limpers. I admit this seems to be a bit of a contradiction. I'm learning this part right now.

Also I do know that pocket pairs are at their worst against a small field. (2-3)

Maybe someone else can clarify this.

Krishan

[MaxPower]

[ QUOTE ]
Close, his advice was to cr the flop. (In think that's what he said) It's definitely a way ahead or way behind. The idea is you have dominant equity. You won't be outdrawn on very often with a drawless flop. By checking the flop, you risk giving a free card, but your hand isn't that vunerable. So someone might make a second best hand when you lead the turn and call down when they might have folded the flop.

Krishan

[/ QUOTE ]

If you are talking about hand 5, I don't get this at all.

[jonahmavesin]

That makes sense. And actually, my point about the raise isn't really relevant. Sure you're prefer not to play the pp for a set for two bets, but if there were enough limpers, you'd actually welcome the larger pot. So really the only worry about the raise is if it comes too early and limits limpers, or if it folds the blinds. But as you say, the critical point is still just how many players to the flop, not as much the number of bets, since your set should hold up when it hits.

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with 5, 5.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls, 3 folds, Hero calls, 2 folds, SB raises, 1 fold, UTG+1 calls, Hero calls.

Flop: (7 SB) 2, K, A (3 players)
SB bets, UTG+1 raises, Hero folds, SB calls.

Turn: (5.50 BB) 8 (2 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, SB calls.

River: (7.50 BB) T (2 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets, SB folds.

Final Pot: 8.50 BB

[/ QUOTE ]

So you've got a pocket pair. One crappy player has limped to you in MP.

If the blinds are tight, you've probably got a raise here, but let's assume they're not since this is 2/4.

If the two players behind you fold, you will be against a crappy limper and 1 or 2 blinds (usually 2). You'll be getting 3:1 on your preflop money and you'll have the button and the best hand on many flops. This is a great situation and if you think it's not you're crazy.

Let's say one of the players behind you raises. Then you'll be getting 2.75 to 5:1 depending on SB's willingness to coldcall, and you'll have great relative position to the PFR when you hit your set. You'll need to make 3-4 BB postflop when you hit your set to justify the limp--this is easy when the blinds come along and likely even when they don't (especially since the EP limper is apparently a horrible player).

If it's folded to SB, SB raises and BB calls--now you've got great position relative to the raiser, a horrible player trapped between you, the button, and 3:1 on your preflop money. This is a good situation as well.

If people behind you limp and nobody raises, you're getting great odds preflop and you're happy.

So, the only situation that you really don't like is when everybody folds to the SB AND the SB raises AND the BB folds. And even then you have a PP and the button.

Folding this preflop is a not so great.

scrub

[btspider]

certainly you don't feel bad about calling the second bet if someone raises behind you... but isn't the primary reason to fold (the first time) because you hate when someone raises behind since the full effect is you put in 2 bets and can likely only continue if you hit your set?

[scrub]

[ QUOTE ]
certainly you don't feel bad about calling the second bet if someone raises behind you... but isn't the primary reason to fold (the first time) because you hate when someone raises behind since the full effect is you put in 2 bets and can likely only continue if you hit your set?

[/ QUOTE ]

Note that my numbers are the actual price you're getting on your preflop limp, not the odds you're getting on calling the raise.

scrub

[MaxPower]

Thank you scrub. I thought I was going crazy.

I would raise here most of the time. I'm not sure about 2/4, but at 3/6 and above you will get it heads-up or 3 handed most of the time. If not, call.