A rivered set and some weird river play.

[Catt]

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The river might be worth a crying cap (it will probably be capped anyway so it doesn't matter very much how you play it).

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A crying cap? What is that?

Hero has a FH and loses only to KK, QQ, or 22. And the bulk of this thread is a discussion on how Hero extracts the most bets from the other players or how he plays if the T doesn't fall on the river.

[bergh]

The only possible hands that the opponents might like is KK, QQ, 22, AJ, and K2, Q2, T2 (which is less likely, at least for the raiser). That makes TT a pretty good, but not great hand... Maybe I give them too much credit (I'm pretty drunk at the moment) when I say that he will lose a significant amount of time with that much action on the river (I'm not saying he should fold it, but I don't think getting the river capped has extremely much value).

But I don't consider the river play the most interesting in this hand but rather the flop play. Betting the flop with this hand is pure over aggro chip spewing... He won't win a showdown very often (almost never) and he can't buy the pot, so why invest more money in it? If he knew he would catch runner runner 2, T it is good play, but in that case he should bet the turn as well...

[Catt]

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(I'm pretty drunk at the moment)

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Better drunk on the forums than at the tables!

[bergh]

Lol! I've just earned $60 at the party 1/2 tables, so guess playing drunk is not always bad... I was actually looking for a 2+2 table, but I couldn't find any.

I can't recall that I've ever folded a full house at the river (at least not when holding a pocket pair), and I think trying to jam it every time is pretty much +EV, but I have saved a lot of money by not spewing chips at the flop with 3 opponents, 2 overcards at the board and 2 outs which would complete both flush and straight draws...

[Entity]

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I don't see why you bet the flop. Are you looking for free cards for drawing to your tainted set or do you think the bet will buy the pot?

The river might be worth a crying cap (it will probably be capped anyway so it doesn't matter very much how you play it).

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Remember, villain #1 is somewhat loose preflop but semi-decent postflop, so until I bet the flop, there is no bearing on what he has (if he folds, 33-99, 98s, etc., are quite possible). Against Villain #2, there is a chance that he hasn't hit the board (AJ, ATs), and a small chance he folds a better hand, like JJ or possibly the other TT. I think he'd call down with any piece of the board, but JJ and TT don't quite qualify in those estimates.

The flop bet was an attempt to win the pot there, or get it HU. Depending on who called, raised, etc., I would have had to play it from there; but at that point a 1SB investment was worthwhile in a 9.5SB pot, on the chances that I A) might have the best hand, and B) had to protect that hand, if that were the case. But mostly it was a shot at winning the pot. If CO called, I think I could continue with the hand; if either of the other players called, it would be dicey, but I could probably continue carefully. But when both of these guys call, I think that my chances of having the best hand have gone way down, and decide to quit, of course, unless I spike a Ten.

[bergh]

I think there are too many ifs in your reasoning. A late position bet in a 10 SB pot isn't very scary and it is usually very hard to buy a pot at party .5/1 (which makes these games very profitable). If villain #2 has AJ you can't protect the pot and if he doesn't you don't need to because you will be drawing almost dead anyway.

What you need is that villain #2 has AJ, villain #1 and CO will fold their hands and villain #2 won't bluff you or draw out on you. I don't think all these conditions are met even close to 1:10 and if they are you somtimes win even if you don't bet the flop. Betting costs you one bet and is probably not worth more than 0.05 bets.

If you do get heads up with one of the players, are you planning to continue the betting on the turn and river? That might be really expensive if you are called down with a better hand (you are investing 5 SB to win 9.5 in a small percentage of time) or if you are slowplayed. (And if you aren't planning to continue the betting, having more opponents might be to your advantage since it reduces the risk that someone will bluff and it is unlikely that a worse hand that wouldn't call a bet will draw out on you).

[Entity]

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I think there are too many ifs in your reasoning. A late position bet in a 10 SB pot isn't very scary and it is usually very hard to buy a pot at party .5/1 (which makes these games very profitable). If villain #2 has AJ you can't protect the pot and if he doesn't you don't need to because you will be drawing almost dead anyway.

What you need is that villain #2 has AJ, villain #1 and CO will fold their hands and villain #2 won't bluff you or draw out on you. I don't think all these conditions are met even close to 1:10 and if they are you somtimes win even if you don't bet the flop. Betting costs you one bet and is probably not worth more than 0.05 bets.

If you do get heads up with one of the players, are you planning to continue the betting on the turn and river? That might be really expensive if you are called down with a better hand (you are investing 5 SB to win 9.5 in a small percentage of time) or if you are slowplayed. (And if you aren't planning to continue the betting, having more opponents might be to your advantage since it reduces the risk that someone will bluff and it is unlikely that a worse hand that wouldn't call a bet will draw out on you).

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The PFR has the distinct possibility of folding JJ or TT. There are seven combos of those and this is worth taking into consideration. CO is not a worry, and until he calls neither is the other villain. Against one opponent, I would bet the turn and check the river, folding to a checkraise.

Also, not everything is about hand protection here. Just because I can't protect against AJ or AT, if they are out there, doesn't mean I should check here; in those cases, I should bet for value.

But like I said, every street is certainly debatable, and the flop is no exception.

Rob

[Entity]

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I don't see why you bet the flop. Are you looking for free cards for drawing to your tainted set or do you think the bet will buy the pot?

The river might be worth a crying cap (it will probably be capped anyway so it doesn't matter very much how you play it).

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Ok, reading, rereading, and reviewing the hand. I think I agree.

If I had 3-bet preflop, betting the flop would have been a better play, I think. Then checking the turn and playing the river aggressively.

Rob