Using odds quickly

[Fins]

[ QUOTE ]
<snip>
I have also heard that 'Poker Nation' by Andy Bellin is the same type of book. I have not read it yet, but it is on my list.

And I am glad I could help.

[/ QUOTE ]

An excellent entertaining read... kind of equate it to "Bringing Down the House" (the MIT BJ book). If your looking for more than search elsewhere.

- Fins

[mreinecker]

Can someone also explain to me the connection between the pot odds and the odds of hitting your outs ? I understand now how to calculate both types of odds, but what is the connection between them that will justify a call ? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]

[CaptLego]

[ QUOTE ]

For turning the percentages into pot odds, just remember some basic benchmarks:
50% chance requires 2 to 1 pot odds.
33% chance requires 3 to 1 pot odds.
25% chance requires 4 to 1 pot odds.
20% chance requires 5 to 1 pot odds.
16% chance requires about 6 to 1 pot odds.
10% chance requires 10 to 1 pot odds.



[/ QUOTE ]

uh... you need to subtract 1 from each of those odds.
For example, if your number of outs gives you a 50% chance of winning, that means you'll win 1/2 of the time. That's an even money bet. You only need pot odds of 1:1, not 2:1.
(Of course, in a limit game, you'll always get better that 1:1 pot odds, but a no-limit game could approach 1:1 pot odds)
In this example, imagine a pot of $1 and you need to call a $1 bet. Call. Do this twice. You'll win 50% of the time, so on average, you win 1 of the two pots. You spend $2 to call twice, winning a pot of $2 once. You break even.

Similarly, if your outs give you a 25% chance of winning, then you need 3:1 pot odds, not 4:1. You call 4 times (costs $4) and win 25% of the pots (one out the four), and the winning pot will be $4 ($3 plus your call of $1). At 3:1 pot odds, your call with a 25% chance of winning will be a break-even decision.

[Mizzles]

Yeah let's see if I have this right. 15/30 hold 'em, say you have AK on the turn and figure you need an A or K on the river to win. That's 6 outs. 46/6 = 7.67 or 6.67 to 1. So that means there needs to be $200 (6.67 * 30) in the pot to make a call correct?

[Fins]

[ QUOTE ]
Yeah let's see if I have this right. 15/30 hold 'em, say you have AK on the turn and figure you need an A or K on the river to win. That's 6 outs. 46/6 = 7.67 or 6.67 to 1. So that means there needs to be $200 (6.67 * 30) in the pot to make a call correct?

[/ QUOTE ]
Yes, that's what I get [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

You can think of it in terms of big bets also... Pot of 7BB to justify (if that's really what you need to win). It can be easier to keep track of bets than dollars... just count 'em as it goes around then half it at the turn since pre/post flop bets are half BB's.

My 2¢,
Fins

[Mojo Tooth]

[ QUOTE ]
For turning the percentages into pot odds, just remember some basic benchmarks:
50% chance requires 2 to 1 pot odds.
33% chance requires 3 to 1 pot odds.
25% chance requires 4 to 1 pot odds.
20% chance requires 5 to 1 pot odds.
16% chance requires about 6 to 1 pot odds.
10% chance requires 10 to 1 pot odds.


[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not trying to be a jerk, Speakeasy, but all of these numbers are completely busted. You're not counting the "1" in your 4:1 properly. Remember, if you have 4:1 against that means one chance in FIVE, not one chance in four. One out of five is 20%, not 25%.

If you want to do a mental exercise, figure out how good your odds would have to be to be mathematically assured of making money in the long run by betting on, say, a coin flip. You know you have a 50-50 chance. So if you risk a dollar to win a dollar you should come out even. So why wait until the pot odds are 2:1 before you bet on this 50% chance?

[RackOChips]

Fins right. Thats the way I do it, just keep trak of BBs. This simplifies the thought process and makes many decisions more clear.

[CaptLego]

Counting bets is fine for limit, but for no-limit, you'll need to count the $ and do the math.

[Bradyams]

[ QUOTE ]
but for no-limit, you'll need to count the $ and do the math.

[/ QUOTE ]

Lol, sometimes I stop keeping track of what's in the pot, and I'll suddenly need to know. I usually end up staring at all the scattered chips until I say "[censored] it" and call anyway [img]/images/graemlins/laugh.gif[/img]

[Mizzles]

No message