Anyone Muck this set?

[slickpoppa]

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you gain no information whatsoever, miss a chance to get more money in with the likely best hand, and you're giving a potentially dangerous free card.

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That sums it up pretty nicely. As for the following comment:
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Like I said I was pretty certain he was on a flush draw so I wanted to draw for free.

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On the turn, you really cannot be so sure that he was on the flush draw that you can afford not to bet. This is poker, not palm reading.

[SGS]

This is true.... I do agree betting the turn is definately better.

SGS

[chuddo]

also, you miss out on a ton of value when he has a hand like twopair and the fourth spade falls on the river, killing both of your action in the hand.

but i disagree that checking the turn is so completely horrible. what do you do if he is capable of check-raise bluffing when the flush completes on the board?

i think checking the turn and calling a river pot sized bet both keeps the pot small, and doesn't let him know that you have such a strong hand to pay him off that much with if he has the nuts. it also allows you to catch any bluff, or simply call with a better made hand if he is an idiot with a hand like Q-10.

and there are also going to be times when he hits the nut flush on the turn, or on a board-pairing spade if he has the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], and you fill up for free and he stacks off to you.

all that said, the river is an autocall and i hope you weren't show 3-4 of diamonds for the rivered open ended straight.

[Goodie54]

What read could you have possibly got this early in the tournament that would put him on a flush draw? Bet this turn every single time unless your in a live tourney and you have some sort of reliable read on the player.

Peace

Goodie

[nightlyraver]

This is a difficult spot to be in. First, it's early in the tourney and the pot and BB is small relative to the stack sizes. This means that players will sometimes call a bet like this on a flush draw despite the fact that the pot odds dictate a fold. Further, the min. bet on the flop is really not a convincing semi-bluff so he's not quite trying to pick up the pot. I do like your raise, however. When the flush card your check was really a double-edged sword. Granted, you did have 9 outs to the boat assuming that he had no pair. If he has two-pair then you have only 7 and if he has a set then you are down to a single out to the quads. If you feel that he has no pair, checking with 9 outs is a good play on the turn (in a different situation you should bet with few or no outs). However, you really did set yourself up to lose this pot by checking. As you can see, he can make a big bet at the end w/ total crap and still put you in a bad spot since you checked the turn and most players in position will bet with the flush on the turn. If the stakes were higher I would probably put him on a bluff in many cases, especially if he were the type that is prone to bluff on the end if the turn is checked. However, this is a completely routine play that is made by many weaker players. He bet the min. on the flop with a flush draw in an attempt to get more money in the pot AND to try and see the turn cheaply (whick failed); Checked the turn to feign weakness; Bet big on the end to try and get paid off by a player with top pair or better who thinks he doesn't have the flush. In conclusion, you can ditch this against many players, especially since it is early in the tourney and you only have 120 invested, receiving less than 2:1 on your money. Rest assure that amature players will pull this play more than 50% of the time early on so you will save lots in the long run.

[Shoog]

I'm inclined to agree with chuddo's concern that he might have been drawing to a little open ender that completed with the six on the river. It is more in line with his betting. It would have been tough for him to call your bet on the turn looking at a board with three spades on it, while he was still drawing into a straight. His betting didn't seem consistant with a flush either. As an alternate possibility, I'd put him on a big pair or two. When you checked on fourth, he'd be inclined to think you missed and he had the best hand.
chrs

[jojobinks]

i can't believe no one said this yet, but "a set of 2's is like a mackerel in the moonlight. one minute, it's all shiny. the next, it stinks."

i'd call

[sdplayerb]

i disagree with just about everybody here.
I definitely check the turn and here is why:
1. Many people minbet with a draw in hopes that it will give them a cheap card. It is a terrible play, but many do it. They think it confuses people.
2. So I think he has hit his flush, and now he stupidly checks it. I definitely don't want to be checkraised. People say you should bet for information, you bet 150, he pushes in, now you have to fold. Or:
3. You check behind for the free shot at the boat. If he has the flush he is paying you off. If you miss, if he bets small you can call and not be crippled.

So you don't hit your boat..it still really looks like a flush and he bets big at it. If he is bluffing with no flush this big, good luck to him..awesome bluff. Bad bluff as you could have raised on the come in the first place and hit your flush and now he just paid you off big time. But that just doesn't seem likely.

I'm not giving up 30% of my stack here hoping he is bluffing as I can't see his having anything other than a flush or nothing. But what would he have called your raise with in the first place?

SD

[SossMan]

I'm trying to interpret what your saying. Certainly it's not a fold the river recommendation.

After checking behind on the turn?

Getting nearly 2:1?

He can't be betting a Q?

He can't be bluffing?

[chuddo]

there is also the outside chance he has a hand like 1010 and played it very oddly, thinking your raise may have been a big spade draw, only to hit the 'dammit' 10 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on the turn. then decides to (poorly) value bet on river after changing his mind you have a big Q.