KQs leak? PT stats analysis required.

[k000k]

[ QUOTE ]
I have a question. SSH tells us to raise from any position with KQs. I know when playing against aware opponents you are supposed to vary up your play, but in micro limits when playing against people who don't pay attention (pokertracker helps determine the ones) shouldn't you raise everytime to maximize EV?

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If you were in EP and the action came 4 to you, 3 rocks raising in front of you, would you call it? There's times to muck KQs, just not very many of em..

Not to defy SSH (which I dont have), but I don't vary much at all, my strategy is etched in stone and I just about NEVER deviate from it. I'd guess that 'vary up your play' I think means 'vary your play with borderline hands' more than 'vary your monsters'. Like limping with AJ instead of raising, or raising AT instead of folding. Also, I bet it says raise KQs in an UNRAISED pot, not unconditionally. Not raising KQs in an unraised pot is a much bigger mistake than raising AT in LP after a couple limpers, so my small amount of variance goes with stuff like AT, QJ, T9s, 44, etc.

And besides, player turnover is so high in micros that nobody really notices, the ones who do are typically good players who arent in a lot of pots anyway.

[jrz1972]

I don't have SSH right in front of me, but for the record I'm pretty sure Miller has you raising with KQs in all positions and coldcalling a single raise from all positions.

That's pretty much what I do except that my cold-calling is situation-dependent.

[royaltrux]

I was saying basically what you guys were saying. Like I said pokertracker helps becuase if three rocks are in you wouldn't raise automatically like in other situations.

I was saying that majority of people in low limits don't pay attention so there should be no reason your raise percentage shouldn't be in 90's. My comments were to others who said his raise % was too much. I think that just flies in the face of all the information that Miller gives us here and in his book.

SO I agree with the 2 that replied to me and was questioning previous posts.

[3rdEye]

I'm losing with KQs too. Not sure why, but I think it's that I haven't yet been able to overcome crappy KQs play when I was starting out at the micros.

[zuluking]

[ QUOTE ]
Exactly, you could have one big hand and win $32 with it and be dead even. In one hand. Anytime 1 hand can move your numbers that far, insufficient data. KQs is a big winner, dont get weak with it!

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EXCELLENT point.

[stone_7]

KQs is a huge hand that you IMHO should always be playing. It is only a step or two behind AKs. You are only dominated by AA KK QQ AK AQ. Other than that you are in great shape against a small pocket pair because you can get away from the hand if you don't pair. Many people can beat you if the flop is bad but you can easily draw if you don't hit anything. Anyone who is dumb enough to call you to the end in hopes of an ace on the river will lose in the long run so don't worry about losing to that. Given that you are probably a favorite preflop I see no reason not to raise and build the pot while you have the best of it. Even in a large pot it should be a pretty easy call whether to stay or fold. In addition if you build a big pot early, later calls to gutshot straights may become profitable which should help you out.

[droolie]

[ QUOTE ]
KQs is a huge hand that you IMHO should always be playing. It is only a step or two behind AKs. You are only dominated by AA KK QQ AK AQ. Other than that you are in great shape against a small pocket pair because you can get away from the hand if you don't pair. Many people can beat you if the flop is bad but you can easily draw if you don't hit anything. Anyone who is dumb enough to call you to the end in hopes of an ace on the river will lose in the long run so don't worry about losing to that. Given that you are probably a favorite preflop I see no reason not to raise and build the pot while you have the best of it. Even in a large pot it should be a pretty easy call whether to stay or fold. In addition if you build a big pot early, later calls to gutshot straights may become profitable which should help you out.

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Why play this every time if you're dominated by all those hands? You showed exactly why I muck this against a tight pre-flop raiser.

[DeuceHigh80]

Loose game recommendations have KQs as a raise from any position. But, the tight games charts don't start raising it until MP (my career at party .5/1 has an average saw flop percentage of 40% or squarely in the tight games chart).

If you always played at 10 handed tables and strictly followed Miller's recommendations you'd get a PFR of something less than 70% (i.e. never from the first 3 positions after BB and only from the other 7 when there's no raise in front of you so that has to be less than 70%).

I don't think it's inconsistent with SSH to say that a PFR in the 90s for this holding is too high for most online games...

FWIW:

My stats are a little lower than OP (vp 93/pfr 75 after 26,000 total hands and 73 instances of KQs) but it's my 5th biggest winner after the usual suspects (AA-QQ and AKs).

At the same time though A5s and A7s are both winners for me but A6s is my biggest loser (bb/100)? (where's sample size man?)

[Entity]

KQs is earning .64bb/hand for me, VPIP of 95.45%, PFR of 72.73%, CCPF of 13.6%.

The biggest leak most people have when playing KQs is postflop; feeling the need to bet it into 5 preflop callers with an Ace on board or other stupid stuff is going to kill your winrate with this gorgeous hand.

Rob

[royaltrux]

So true!!