The Ten Smartest Poker Players

[J.A.Sucker]

El Diablo... hah! Maybe if this was a list about "most capable eaters of fried cheese sticks."

Then again, I may have him on that one... [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[J.A.Sucker]

Mason,

Please send me the royalty check for dubbing Ed the NPA. You can PM me for my address.

Best regards,

Sucker

[J.A.Sucker]

I award you highest honors in the following areas:

Rolling 5's at the craps table.

Drinking piss-bad beer.

Rolling 5's at the craps table.

Telling me what to do at the blackjack table when I can't see the cards.


I hearby dub you Summa BOOOOOOOOM Laude!

[Duke]

[ QUOTE ]
just look at the people in CS, and look at the people in PH, that's all you gotta do.

all you CS people will probably take offense to that, but don't let that blind you from the truth.

[/ QUOTE ]

I only jumped into this discussion because I -was- a CS major, at a school as tough as any, and think it's trivial when compared to physics.

~D

[Duke]

Hoyt Corkins
Phil Hellmuth
The people who folded in the billionth hand on stars.

~D

[3rdEye]

David,

Based on your estimation, what is the average IQ of the 10 players on your list? Let's say, using the Stanford-Binet (I think that's it) test?

[zaxx19]

IM continually amazed at how people who study mathematically oriented subjects perceive other students....

I went to McGill University and while it is no MIT or Cal Tech its considered a fairly elite institution world wide. I roomed for a year with an Electrical Eng student who had flunked out of IIT (point being he got into IIT whioh is simply the most difficult Univ in the world to be accepted into) and had gotten into Cornell Eng(Damn fine institution for tech kids). He and his Eng-Comp Sci friends would continually tell me how I was the smartest non-engineer they ever met and how they were shocked at how bright I was.

The point is I knew several student in the faculty of Arts MUCH SMARTER THAN ME. I was left believing either 1) they had not sufficiently socialized with Non-Math types to ascertain whether or not those 'ARTSY' students were or were not intellectually curious/talented ..OR 2) Had just projected their own feelings of intellectual insecurity(brought about by being plunged into classes with like minded nerdy types)on to other students to buttress their failing egos. Remember some perceived brilliance is all these "nerdy" types usually have at age 18-20...there isnt much of a sex/social life for them other than dragging the occasional joint and talking about labs/exams on the phone.

I leaned towards 2. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Sredni Vashtar]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't think so!

Vince

[/ QUOTE ]

Vince is correct.

All anyone can really do in this matter is evaluate on a very specifically defined area. "Ability to think", as I have seen it defined is too broad and vague to have much meaning and renders this type of Top Ten list essentially worthless. Sklansky did say it was fun so that's cool. Ferrets understand fun. In that way it is not useless.

Once you define it narrowly it becomes more scientifically valid to make such statements. "Poker players that score highly on standardized tests X, Y or Z", for example has objective value. It is subjective to say that these tests indicate "ability to think", as though somehow saying it makes it so. It is an opinion. Which is ok as long as it is understood as such. The results indicate an ability to do well on those tests. They probably even have value in projecting how well, all else being equal, the person may do in other similar tests, disimilar tests, or real life situations such as school. (Now of course the results themselves are likely a strong indication that all is not equal, but this is a whole other topic.)

Without such narrow definitions, the whole thing becomes nebulous. Imagine a seemingly simple statement, "How well the poker players do at math." Even that is hard to measure. What type of math? What type of tests? One person may be superb at learning math when taught to them but not as good at creative, inventive thinking when the method is not known or clear. Who is better at math, the mathematician who learns as fast as a computer, but never discovers new insights, or the slower learner who can see what few others can? And who wil be better at poker, the quick thinking A minus student or the deep/slow thinking future Nobel winner?

Now the "ability to think" is somehow closely related to math ability, I think DS suggested. That is an opinion. Not objective fact. Does it not require an "ability to think' to write a novel or a play? Did not Shakespeare have an "ability to think"? We can extend this line of thought to other areas: music, communication, management ability, business acumen, et cetera. Many of these areas are inherently subjective, thus frustrating the "need to quantify" crowd.


Sredni Vashtar



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Below is the same post in old "Sredni style" [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] So don't read it unless you like that sort of thing.



Millennia ago, a young Sredni went to different mortal ferret settlements and asked them, "Who is the most genius of the ferrets?".

The once hungry ferrets by the sea agreed wholeheartedly, "The ferret who invented the fishing pole of course. Who else could it be?".

Then I asked the leisure minded ferrets who lived in the forest the same question. They replied, yawning, "The ferret who invented the hammock. What a silly question."

Sredni continued on, asking many different ferrets this question, and there didn't seem to be a consensus. Further, no matter how he worded the question, all the ferrets seem to interpret in their own way. The ferrets who ran the university insisted vehemently that is must be one who had performed well on their tests, which made sense, I suppose. Yet when I asked yet others at the same university the same question they laughed derisively, saying, "Those arent the right tests. Our departments tests are more indicative. Theirs don't encompass pure logic." And another univerisity! When it was learned I had visited their rival first, I was met with a cold shoulder, but I was assured their methods were superior and the test scores proved it. Sredni shrugged, wondering how the inventors of the hammock and the fishing pole did on such tests.

The local musicians guild held that it was a toss up between two of their great composers. But these composers had never even taken the university tests, so surely this must be wrong? But when I questioned the leaders of the musicians, they said, "Believe what you want, we are about the music, not the rat race, man" And my questioning did not bring hatred and dissent like it had at the university, just annoyance. Sredni sat for a short while amidst the aroma of medicinal herbs and discussed other matters before continuing.

The business minded ferrets made things even worse. Some said that it was the ferret who had made the most money. But this didn't make sense to me as this frequently changed on daily basis, with swings in the various ferret markets. Could genius be such a random fluctuation? To further complicate this, most of the business leaders couldn't compose a symphony, and many never attended the university. "University?," one prosperous one said, "I can buy and sell every one of those professors. They are flotsam." What was Sredni to say? Who was Sredni to argue with a mortal who owned a helicopter?

The journey continued, and many had different answers, and sometimes the more easily provoked ferrets broke out in yelling, with occasional bloodshed. Sredni had asked a peaceful question, yet...? Or was the anger evidence itself? And many did not answer the question asked, but twisted it to answer a their own question. And the stronger ferrets often intimidated the weaker ones, insisting that their strength itself proved the correctness of their answers. But Sredni has not come to incite battle, he was not the god of war, just a ferret god on the fierce impatient side of things.

The last visit was to the spiritual leaders, and many of them answered, "God." Which may have struck Sredni as humorous had it not been the end of the trial.

Upon returning frustrated to the god realm, the older wiser gods just looked at him with amusement. "What have you learned, Sredni?" "Not much," I admitted. "The answer has eluded me. But as a god I should know in the future how to answer such a question when asked." Sredni went on to describe his journey and the varied responses of the mortal ferrets. Sredni had expected suprise and commiseration, but the older gods had already known the results. Omniscience can really damper excitement.

And now the reason for Sredni's forced journey began to make sense. As a god, he would eventually become omniscient, but omniscience and experience were different things. Or why else would the we gods bother with this whole mess?


The oldest of the gods, who rarely spoke, put down his tea cup. All grew silent. "To answer questions of this kind, young Sredni, just tell them of your travels, " he said with a wink.
SV,
who has had too much eggnog.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Sucker:

You need to talk to Ed about that. Tell him I sent you.

Best wishes,
mason

[Bataglin]

Mr. Sredni, very wise words. Your post is on the top of this ferrets list.