How Would You Play This Hand?

[knifeandfork]

He might do this to test the waters to see if hero will call a push.
excellent point, a play definitely in a tough players arsenal, although i still think the default is raise it up on the turn.

[bones]

I haven't read through the other answers, so I apologize if this duplicates.

I don't think you can call here. There are 7 spades (excluding A that gives you the nuts) and 9 cards that pair the board. That gives him 16 cards to bet that you can't call. If any of the other 29 cards comes off, I don't think you get another chip from him.

Since it doesn't say, I'll assume 5 people in the pot, including the small blind. That's 3400 in the pot after flop betting. If you call, you've allowed him to put in 7500 (calling 2500 and raising 5000), making it an 18,400 pot.

He's a 1.8125/1 dog to get his scare card, but if you just call, you're paying him 2.45/1 on his 7500 if it hits (assuming he pushes and you fold). If you don't fold, there's a good chance that his "scare card" has actually made his hand.

Essentially if you call, you're giving him 16 outs.

I don't think you can fold here, as clearly the tough player can make this raise with so many hands, even if he knows he's way behind (especially if he has A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and knows you don't have the nuts). I think you either have to push or bet an amount that makes his implied odds poor enough where he can't call the reraise.

[MMMMMM]

I will just add that I might bet the river for value if a spade fell and I was checked to, but it would be very player-dependent.

I agree that someone with the Ace of Spades who catches the 4th flush card will usually bet the river if first to act...but there are some crafty S.O.B.'s out there too, and there is a good chance that a hand that called the check-raise on the Turn (like mine) might have enough to value-bet the river, or much more remotely, might try to pick up the pot. So for me a final value-bet if checked to on a 4th spade river would not be an "auto-play".

[ZeeJustin]

I call the turn, and see how the river develops. This is the best way to extract the most money out of a smaller flush, and the best way to not go broke against the ace high flush. I'm not that worried about a set in this spot.

[MMMMMM]

That is pretty much my thinking, too.

[Snoogins47]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone asked me if they played this hand correctly in the Bellagio 15K WPT finals.

First day early. Very tough table. 100-200 blinds. Several limpers. Player in question limps in late position with Kx of spades. Unraised pot. Flop comes T62 with two spades. All check to player who bets 1200. Only the big blind calls. Turn is 8s. Blind checks and player bets 2500. He gets check raised 5000 more. He has 35000 left as does his opponent.

I do not want to discuss the rightness of the play up to this point. I just want to know what the player facing the 5000 check raise from a tough opponent should do now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Obviously, the definition of "tough player" makes this tricky for me, because is this "tough player" one who would frequently bluff here? Is he one that would be willing to gamble on calling a raise with the naked As? Could he be capable of confidently putting me on the flush, or could he be pushing a set, two pair, or a straight?

I feel I'm ahead here most of the time (a King-High flush will do that to a guy) And I feel the flat-call actually puts a lot more pressure on him than raising. Obviously you're giving him the chance to outdraw you. But you also have him in an awkward as hell position if he doesn't improve. I think I'm apt to see a sizeable river bet followup with the majority of hands I think he could have, and I'm extremely far ahead of the majority of them. And if you make a sizeable raise, you're going to let him get away from most hands you beat, with the (definitely not to be underestimated) chance he's got a smaller flush.

I'm always so wishy washy on these posts since I have to take such huge liberties with assuming what the given player description means.

I apologize if this is redundant, I just like to post my opinion without reading others.

[Sqred]

I think a raise of about 15k is in order, which i think might be enough to fold a pair and naked ace. If I got moved in on I would really be in the tank but would probably have to get broke with the second nuts in this spot.

Also, perhaps the strong player wouldnt re-raise with the nut flush and I could show down after an attempted check raise on the river and leave myself with a nice amount of chips.

All in all I would probably get broke here but the 15k raise seems right, It just seems like an attempt to blow me off my hand.

FJM

[Beavis68]

I could come up with some brilliant move, but I would probably not actually do that, I would probably push and pray.

[grandgnu]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone asked me if they played this hand correctly in the Bellagio 15K WPT finals.

First day early. Very tough table. 100-200 blinds. Several limpers. Player in question limps in late position with Kx of spades. Unraised pot. Flop comes T62 with two spades. All check to player who bets 1200. Only the big blind calls. Turn is 8s. Blind checks and player bets 2500. He gets check raised 5000 more. He has 35000 left as does his opponent.

I do not want to discuss the rightness of the play up to this point. I just want to know what the player facing the 5000 check raise from a tough opponent should do now.

[/ QUOTE ]

Alright, so we've got a pot of roughly 10-12K in chips. Each player has 35K left and blinds are only 100/200. Based on your opponents play I believe he:

1. Flopped a pair or two on the flop (or caught his 2nd pair on the turn). He is trying to see if you really have the flush with this bet, and trying to represent it himself. Maybe he feels since it's so early in the tourney that you are a LAG player and trying to push him around with a crap hand.

2. The player also has a flush, although in all liklihood a smaller flush.

3. The player had a straight draw on the flop that paid off on the turn. He may fear the flush and is betting out to test you for this and see if his straight is any good.

I'd push all-in. It's early in the tournament, and this "tough" opponent is obviously capable of making a laydown. If he does have two pair (or a set, although I doubt this) then he's smart enough to dump it and realize he's up against a made flush when you move all-in (if you just smooth-call you're giving him the opportunity to outdraw you)

If your opponent has made a flush also, again I feel you're ahead and your push all-in will get called.

If your opponent has his straight, and he's "tough" he will likely lay it down to your all-in. So you'll miss out on making more chips there.

Yes, it is possible he's got the Ace-high flush, but I don't think so. If he's a "tough" opponent he's going to want to trap you with the nut flush, not push you out of the pot. I think you've got him beat, and your best option is to move-in. If he calls, you'll likely win. And if he's got the two pair or a set he'll likely fold it to your flush and not outdraw you.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
Alright, so we've got a pot of roughly 10-12K in chips. Each player has 35K left and blinds are only 100/200. Based on your opponents play I believe he:

1. Flopped a pair or two on the flop (or caught his 2nd pair on the turn). He is trying to see if you really have the flush with this bet, and trying to represent it himself. Maybe he feels since it's so early in the tourney that you are a LAG player and trying to push him around with a crap hand.

2. The player also has a flush, although in all liklihood a smaller flush.

3. The player had a straight draw on the flop that paid off on the turn. He may fear the flush and is betting out to test you for this and see if his straight is any good.

I'd push all-in. It's early in the tournament, and this "tough" opponent is obviously capable of making a laydown. If he does have two pair (or a set, although I doubt this) then he's smart enough to dump it and realize he's up against a made flush when you move all-in (if you just smooth-call you're giving him the opportunity to outdraw you)

If your opponent has made a flush also, again I feel you're ahead and your push all-in will get called.

If your opponent has his straight, and he's "tough" he will likely lay it down to your all-in. So you'll miss out on making more chips there.

Yes, it is possible he's got the Ace-high flush, but I don't think so. I think you've got him beat, and your best option is to move-in. If he calls, you'll likely win. And if he's got the two pair or a set he'll likely fold it to your flush and not outdraw you.

[/ QUOTE ]

If your goal of the tournament was winning the most number of pots, this would be a good strategy.