How Would You Play This Hand?

[David Sklansky]

Someone asked me if they played this hand correctly in the Bellagio 15K WPT finals.

First day early. Very tough table. 100-200 blinds. Several limpers. Player in question limps in late position with Kx of spades. Unraised pot. Flop comes T62 with two spades. All check to player who bets 1200. Only the big blind calls. Turn is 8s. Blind checks and player bets 2500. He gets check raised 5000 more. He has 35000 left as does his opponent.

I do not want to discuss the rightness of the play up to this point. I just want to know what the player facing the 5000 check raise from a tough opponent should do now.

[KeyToTheMint]

I'm going to reraise him 20,000 more and try to shut him out
of the pot if he is holding something like tens with the spade
ace, two pair, or trips. If he has the straight maybe im going
to break him. If he's got the nuts im going broke but i'd rather die like a lion than live like a coward even though
its early in the tournament.

[Richard Tanner]

To me, certainly no pro, the tougher the player, the more likely they would be to bluff in this spot, especially if the person they are bluffing into is someone they perceive as a novice (i.e. not good enough to smell a bluff, but good enough to realize someone would "have" to have a flush to bet there).
In addition, the BB could have anything (unraised pot) so 9-7 seems also possible.
Either way, if this player is good it may be too early for him/her to play for all his chips (which he most likely will on the river).

Cody

[zaxx19]

Hmm, this is why I dont play Kx suited very much...for the flush I mean. I probably call and take a look at one more card, and get a better read on the player.

[Gramps]

I'll vote for "smooth-call the Turn, call the River/value-bet if checked to."

Sounds like this "tough" BB is capable of making a well-timed bluff. Our player limped into a multi-way pot, and bet the flop only when checked to, and again the Turn (HU) when a draw came through. Looks like a good time for BB to "make a play."

Of the times the BB is bluffing, if he's capable of firing a 2nd time on the River (it'll be a 16k pot or so by then if our player calls the raise), then a smooth-call of the Turn raise, and flat call of a River bet gets the max out of a bluffing BB. He won't pay off a raise on the Turn anyhow. By just calling, our player gets the most chips (on average) out of BB the times BB is drawing dead on a pure bluff, because a % of the time BB will bet the River.

If the BB has our player beat (either the nut flush on the Turn, or makes the nut flush/full house on the River), then the player protects himself and doesn't lose his whole 35k stack going to war against a better hand.. This assumes BB won't lead all-in on the River with a better hand, nor try and get overly cute with a C/R all-in over our player's (intended) value bet on the end. BB will want a River call from our player the times he has a hand that beats a K-high flush, and it'll be hard to put our player on a hand strong enough to call off his entire 35k stack.

If BB has a hand like a straight, a set, or two pair, if a scare card doesn't hit on the River, he'll likely value bet the River into our player there (or maybe check-call a smallish bet if a scare card does hit). If our player reraises such a hand on the Turn, he may get BB to lay down some hands right there (even if he thinks our player may do this as a semi-bluff/with a weaker hand a % of the time, the combinations of probabilities and prospect of facing a River bet as well may make BB fold a hand we don't want him folding).

The one drawback to just calling the Turn raise, is that if BB is behind but has outs (two pair, As, set), he's not charged any more to see the River card...but all factors considered, that seems like a risk worth taking here...

[johnnybeef]

considering that your opponent is tough, there are a lot of hands your opponent could be betting. included on this list are Ax suited, the ace of spades with a pair, a set, an open ended straight flush draw, a straight flush, a high pair or even a bluff. of these, the only two you need worry about are the Ax and the straight flush. at this point the straight flush and the nut flush are unlikely especially considering that you are holding two spades as well and it is extremely rare for two flushes to be up when there are only three of the suit on the board. considering your chip stack, imho, the best situation is to raise the minimum and fold if played back on or if your opponent bets the river. if you win you can figure to have 40000 in chips which is a nice stack to sit back and wait on a hand with. if your opponent plays overtop of you, you will be left with about 20000 which is 100 x the big blinds. this is still a sizeable stack to wait on. the reason i do not like calling is that it shows weakness to your opponent and if he picks up on this he will be able to bluff you out of a big pot on the river.

thats my story and im sticking to it.
Johnny

[lady4luck]

I DON'T LIKE A SMOOTH CALL HERE..WHY LET HIM HAVE A CHANCE TO DRAW OUY ON THE RIVER. I THINK I WOULD GO OVER THE TOP AND TRY TO MAKE IT TO EXPENSIVE FOR HIM TO CALL AND LETTING HIM KNOW I HAD A MADE HAND ALSO....MYB BETTER THAN HIS STR8 2PR OR BABY FLUSH...IF TWO PR, WHY LET HIM CATCH HIS BOAT, AS ITS UNLIKEY HE HAS BIGGER FLUSH.. IF YOU DID JUST CALL,TO BUILD THE POT. IT'S DUMB.. I SAY TRY AND TAKE THE POT NOW!!...HOW'D THIS END UP ANYWAYS? NOW I'M CURIOUS....

[fsuplayer]

raise $15k more. a good player is unlikely to bluff again in this unraised multiway pot. hero here could have any two and good player knows that, and he has played it like a flush so far (which will be fairly obvious if he calls or raises here anyways).

I reraise here and call a push. good player is not laying down a flush unless its a real baby one.

i dont want the river to beat me or kill my action, so I raise.


if GP flat calls the raise. its all going in on a non spade/board pairing river.

[Jim T]

[ QUOTE ]
Someone asked me if they played this hand correctly in the Bellagio 15K WPT finals.

First day early. Very tough table. 100-200 blinds. Several limpers. Player in question limps in late position with Kx of spades. Unraised pot. Flop comes T62 with two spades. All check to player who bets 1200. Only the big blind calls. Turn is 8s. Blind checks and player bets 2500. He gets check raised 5000 more. He has 35000 left as does his opponent.

I do not want to discuss the rightness of the play up to this point. I just want to know what the player facing the 5000 check raise from a tough opponent should do now.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd have to think I'm way ahead here, the decision is whether I want to take the pot right here or call to give him a chance to bet into me on the river. I'd rather take the pot right now than give him a chance to pass me on the river and bust me, because there is almost no way I could fold my hand at this point no matter what the river card. If he happens to have Asxs, so be it. I'd move all in.

[DonkeyKong]

The 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] is a scare card and a tough player will raise on this scare card given where you are betting from... If he holds the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], he knows you don't have the nut flush and that you will have trouble with the pressure.

Given that you have position, you might as well use it -- I would smooth call here. If you are beat, you are drawing dead and shouldn't raise. If you are ahead, you may induce more money on the river. If he has the A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] but no other spade, this would leave 7 spades left and another spade coming off is over 5.5:1 against.

If no spade comes on river, I think you may have to call a big bet. If he is going to bluff all-in with Ace-high, you may have to give it up and give him credit for a tough play.

If a spade comes on the river or the board pairs, I would not call an all-in but may look him up if the bet doesn't cripple my stack.

thanks for posing the question David, I look forward to hearing your thought process.