I GOTTA stop being so attached to my AKo's PF

[trevor]

I'm afraid I'll have to agree with Zax (somewhat) that the re-raise is trouble and that this hand from this position for your tourny life is questionable. After reading this paragraph from Paul Phillips I've really started to reconsider my play of AK. Hope this helps!
[ QUOTE ]
It's dependent on too many subtleties to list but usually I would just call. It's because the other options all offer too large an overlay. If you move all-in you are risking too much to win too little. If you re-raise with the intention of folding to an all-in you are giving up a lot of chips with a premium hand and giving it no way to win. If you re-raise with the intention of calling an all-in you are just asking to call with a small dog or a huge dog. If he just calls you you're out of position against a good player in a double-raised pot with a hand that needs to improve.

And if he folds to your re-raise: you really didn't need AK to accomplish that.

If you just call you keep the pot small which is typically wise when you're out of position. You'll almost always flop way ahead or way behind and can make decisions from there.


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[mntbikr15]

Hehehe, I missed that one somewhere.

[mntbikr15]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm afraid I'll have to agree with Zax (somewhat) that the re-raise is trouble and that this hand from this position for your tourny life is questionable. After reading this paragraph from Paul Phillips I've really started to reconsider my play of AK. Hope this helps!
[ QUOTE ]
It's dependent on too many subtleties to list but usually I would just call. It's because the other options all offer too large an overlay. If you move all-in you are risking too much to win too little. If you re-raise with the intention of folding to an all-in you are giving up a lot of chips with a premium hand and giving it no way to win. If you re-raise with the intention of calling an all-in you are just asking to call with a small dog or a huge dog. If he just calls you you're out of position against a good player in a double-raised pot with a hand that needs to improve.

And if he folds to your re-raise: you really didn't need AK to accomplish that.

If you just call you keep the pot small which is typically wise when you're out of position. You'll almost always flop way ahead or way behind and can make decisions from there.


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Thanks for that trevor, Ive never looked at it quite like that before. Think part of it was I have been winning my fair share of my coinflips lately and I think its gone to my head when I hold hands like AKo.

And not that I dont agree partly with zaxx that I misplayed the hand(hence posting it and in turn learning from it), but its more his way of simply insulting people, without offering any real help that pisses me off.

[mntbikr15]

[ QUOTE ]
there are quite a few posters here who advocate often going all in with AK. i am not one of them. i dont see how you lose all of your stack here preflop i would have just called the reraise hoping he had KK but you cant come over the top here.

Pat

[/ QUOTE ]

You flat call his reraise to 1140 out of position?

What would ur flop plan be then, check/fold if u didnt flop a pair?

Thanks,
Evan

[MLG]

reraising here isn't that bad, since you have position for the hand. the rest of what Phillips said applies though. There are arguments for reraising though that needs to be considered. Sometimes you will win the hand right there. Sometimes if he calls you will win the hand if you bet the flop, even if you missed it.

You said you had a read on the player is LAGy. Has he shown the ability to lay down preflop to a reraise? If so then you there's nothing wrong with repopping it. If not, flat call and hope to trap him for lots of chips if you hit. The problem with reraising a LAG with AK is exactly what happened to you. He is liable enough to push you in with enough hands that you probably have to call if he pushes.

[zaxx19]

FIrst learn to read...then pick up something elemntary say cat in the hat, then look up the meaning of "Napolean Complex"....It is pretty sad when in ripping me you make yourself look like a complete dolt.

Secondly I didnt criticize anyone as a player READ THE MESSAGE B4 FLAMING....

Perhaps you could have simply stated that "I do not play loose since my Flop pct is usually in the neighborhood of 15%" that probably would have sufficed....The funniest thing is after two people flame me for being uselss someone agrees with me and cites paul phillips....then everyone is like ok well that makes sense...you guys need to stop auto-flaming people and start reading their messages..If you want to simply ignore someone feel free, but pretty sure I have meaningful stuff to share so it will be your loss.

[zaxx19]

DO YOU, PARTY UK GURL, EVEN READ MY THREADS???if so POINT OUT WHERE IN MY INTIAL MESSAGE I BLASTED MNTBIKER FOR HIS PLAY??? INFACT IF YOU ARE SAYING IM BLASTING HIM THEN IM ALSO BLASTING MYSELF IN THE MESSAGE.........

[kalooki45]

hey zaxx,
could you elaborate on AK a bit? I'm after info here.
I did read on the probability forum that holding AK to a low rainbow flop you're about 52% favorite, but that drops to 45% if the turn is also a blank!
What I'm thinking is that perhaps holding AK to a rag flop, you should either bet massively, or check along....no calls?
Preflop I tend to bet it anywhere from limping to 4BB..depends on the players & position..what do you think best?

[zaxx19]

Actung:This is jumbled and wont make much sense sorry...Plz ask me a specific example so I can better get my teeth on the subject.

AK preflop is the ultimate semi-bluff, IMHO it is best utilized with the aid of postion and perceived preflop advantage..(see raising aggressivle) But I dont think It is an unfoldable hand and I dont think It must be played to the end like KK or AA (those two I simply try to get all the money in preflop and multiway or not im gambling with these 2 ALMOST ALL THE TIME)or even QQ(many times I simply can get away from this hand either)..

The problem with limping is you are probably gonna get trapped alot when you flop TPTK..It is gonna be hard to convince yourself when reraised or bet at the opponent isnt holding AQ or AJ which is basically what you want with AK lol>. The other problem is simple AK cant flop anything that huge unless it is suited or QJ10 comes down in which case unless K9 or 89 is lurking yu arent gonna usually get paid that well.


I used too limp with AK alot but I dont anymore you simply can put people on hands anymore bc some tourney play is so so so loose.I play it very aggressively pre-flop(4bb or more) in late position. In ep ill put in a 3BB raise. Of course alot of play is dictated by context I just realized this so shoot me a situation and Ill tell you how I would play it. One rule I try to follow is I dont wanna trap myself with AK early in a tourney. If that means toning down the agression so be it. Some people on here have absolutely no problem all-in for all the marbles early in a tourney with AKo that isnt the way I play ...which way is better is also dictated by alot of factors such style of play, how aggressive the field is, size of field, payout distribution..etc etc...Basically the higher the entrants the more you must gamble early in order to win IMHO.

[Lloyd]

The first question that comes to my mind is why did he raise to 6xBB? Was this normal or did he vary his pre-flop raises? If he varied them, did he bet more with good hands or hands that he really didn't want to get called with. In my experience, most on-line players bet more with strong hands so this raise does cause me to pause and consider a premium holding IF he varied his raises.

AK is definitely a hand to raise with pre-flop. And it is a hand to re-raise with if 1) you think a re-raise can win you the pot right then; or 2) you need to re-raise to isolate the initial raiser. AK is not a hand you want to be playing against several opponents as it is too easy to get trapped by an Ax two pair, set, or other strong hand. In this case, the only other player you needed to worry about was the BB so a smooth call would have been fine. But so is a re-raise. It simply comes down to your read on the initial raiser. AK is a great hand to smooth call if he has Ax. I would probably just call in this situation to try and trap if an A or K hit (of course, not realizing he has aces at this point in the thought process).

If I were going to re-raise pre-flop there are two things to consider. First, what am I going to raise to? Second, what will I do if he re-raises me all-in? I would raise to t400. That's a normal, pot-size raise. So you're raise to t450 seems reasonable. But the answer to the second question is critical. If you are going to call his re-raise all-in then you should be the one pushing pre-flop. Now, I DO NOT recommend doing this on this hand. I'm just saying as a general rule if you're going to call a push, better to be pushing yourself.

When he re-raises all-in, it's a clear fold to me. There are people who are LAG with initial raises but not so much when re-raising. I'm not sure if he fits in this category but lots of LAGs do. In any event, I'm thinking in this situation that there is only one possible hand he could have that I'm even with (AK) and any other hand I am behind, possibly a lot. Easy lay down.

So to sum it up, I don't think a re-raise was bad although a call would have been fine as well. But you probably should have thought a little more before calling his all-in as I think it was clear you were behind with a reasonable chance of him holding AA or KK.