Hello, my name is Milo, and I'm a Fish...

[VBM]

you're right; i was thinking of from JR the other day that the 1st *adjustment* ppl make is tightening pre-flop play, but that there is more to good play than hand selection...

[maynard]

And for someone like me (still working on the fine points of post-flop play), pre-flop decisions are relatively more important than they are for experts, as small mistakes pre-flop can be magnified tremendously by bumbling around after the flop.

[Bob T.]

Looking at just post-SSH play, my V$IP is 22.4% over the last 32K+ hands, which seems absolutely insane.


I hate when they call me insane [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img].

I think that you are now playing poker, instead of playing, 'who's the tightest one on my block'.

I think that there is a lot of value left on the table by players that play really tight. Playing slightly looser, also gets you more value on those hands that tighter players would play, because there is more doubt about whether or not you have a really good hand, or some unlikely hand.

It also makes your bluffs and semibluffs work a lot more effectively, because you might have something else besides AK to have entered the pot.

I really think that the most money is made not by tight aggressive players, but by guys who play MAG (Middle Aggressive Players). After your recent experience, you might have to aggree.

[StellarWind]

[ QUOTE ]
In small stakes hold'em, the real money is won and lost after the flop -- Ed Miller, SSHE

somebody remarked to me the other day that they felt that people tend to focus too much on pre-flop play here, b/c it's the easiest part to improve/change. thinking about it, i agree. i think it is important to have good hand selection b/c it makes your decisions easier on later streets, but the quality of your post-flop play does have more far-reaching consequences, for good or ill...

[/ QUOTE ]
Preflop play is extremely important in the sense that poor preflop play will destroy all hope of being a winning player.

But all the good players in this forum play very well preflop. In EV terms there is not much room left for improvement because almost all of the mistakes being made are either very close decisions or come up very rarely.

In contrast, major postflop errors are a problem for everyone.

One reason to make a reasonable effort to improve preflop play despite minimal returns is the inherent unity of the game. All four streets are connected to each other and mistakes on one street are often related to an error or misunderstanding on another street. Deeper understanding of preflop play will improve your postflop play. I suppose I should emphasize that rote preflop rules have their place, but that's not what I mean by understanding preflop play.

[VBM]

Hey Stellar,

Thanks for your insight! This brings me to a question that I've been meaning to ask; There's some discussion in TOP about Game Theory and introducing bluffs/"incorrect" plays into your game and in doing so, implicitly decreasing your opponent's EV for any decision they make...I wonder what place this has in small-stakes...

Is it "right" to occasionally choose to "incorrectly" play/raise a bad-ish starting hand?

1. if you've cultivated a tight table image and you're only playing HU against a thinking opponent or against few/weak opponents, you can overrepresent strength and perhaps steal some blinds straight away (e.g. with say, KTo in late position) or play on their fears/your cultivated image that you only start with premium hands...

2. Playing a poor-ish hand when the price is not VERY wrong and the rare occasion you flop something very promising and it may give your opponents a false image of your starting hand judgement? (e.g. on the button, everyone has called unraised so you call with J7o and flop a boat) i know this can become a slippery slope for a (especially novice, like me) player to go down...

[lu_hawk]

Your VPIP is OK, but you need to raise more. At 2/4 and 3/6 I am about 20% VPIP, 12% PFR and I think that is a good number. From what I've seen of the stats of the good 15/30 players on here they have VPIPs around 22%.

[lu_hawk]

good post, there are so many mutitablers I see with 13% VPIP and 7% PFR that are just giving up money.

[StellarWind]

Find someone who plays B&M and ask them.

Deceptive hand selection preflop has virtually no place in winning SS online play.

1. Tables turn over so rapidly that you won't stay around long enough to reap the longterm benefits of your -EV plays.

2. You can't fool most of your opponents. They're too ignorant. Or oblivious.

3. The good ones all multitable and aren't watching closely.

4. You can't fool PokerTracker! Raise 76s UTG if you like. All your tight, scientific, multitabling opponent is likely to see next time he faces you is your exported PT stats.

[VBM]

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img] n/m.

[sfer]

Me too. My VPIP is around 21%.