a hand vs jimmyv

[skp]

I don't have a problem with the idea to 4 bet but this idea that your failure to do so will lead good players to torture you is hyperbole.

[steveyz]

Bet the flop looking to 3-bet. If it's capped, bet any non-club turn and just call a raise.

[Clarkmeister]

"this idea that your failure to do so will lead good players to torture you is hyperbole. "

Online it's hyperbole. Live it's reality if it's a regular opponent.

[Clarkmeister]

"isn't what I call a good situation to start capping with less than the best hands."

I guess my point is that JJ *isn't* less than the best hands. It's the 4th best hand. It's a monster in this specific situation.

[JimmyV]

[ QUOTE ]
"isn't what I call a good situation to start capping with less than the best hands."

I guess my point is that JJ *isn't* less than the best hands. It's the 4th best hand. It's a monster in this specific situation.

[/ QUOTE ]

Then again (and this isn't to say I might not have 99 in such a scenario) there's no way my three-bet means less than AQ. AT, AJ, and KQ are all in the muck. So if I were bkick here I'd be apt to prefer to see a flop before going nuts with my JJ.

Bkick MIGHT be way ahead vs my TT or 99, but if not the flop could bring lots of bad cards for him. Ten to be exact. (What percentage of the time is that anyway?)

JimmyV

[Clarkmeister]

"Then again (and this isn't to say I might not have 99 in such a scenario) there's no way my three-bet means less than AQ. AT, AJ, and KQ are all in the muck. So if I were bkick here I'd be apt to prefer to see a flop before going nuts with my JJ."

I'm not going to comment on your specific range of raising hands since obviously I don't know, but I'd guess there are very few party players who have a very narrow 99-AA, AQ AK 3-betting range when someone opens from MP.


"but if not the flop could bring lots of bad cards for him. Ten to be exact. (What percentage of the time is that anyway?)"

He's going to flop an overpair or set something in the neighborhood of 60% of the time.

Also, you seem to be ignoring the fact that the BB adds lots of equity to his preflop 4-bet. It also radically changes the dynamic of how each of you must play against him postflop since he 4-bet *both* of you.

[SinCityGuy]

This is an important concept that I picked up from Clarkmeister some time ago. Also, keep in mind, it's only one small bet. Big deal. You get more equity from the BB's weaker hand, plus you get the value of deception and flexibility post-flop.

[Gabe]

It's an exaggeration to call it a hyperbole.

[CDs_Nts]

I say go nuts with the raises until something tells you differently, especially after the flop. Hell, I might even 3-bet the turn (if a non-club falls) if he raises my bet, especially with the BB still in there. Even if someone's got the flush (fairly unlikely) you have quite a few outs, and you can hope he's got an overpair with a club, and will call you down. You can't afford to play the 4th best possible hand like a sissy-girl. The only time I usually slowplay a high pocket pair is when I'm in the big blind and there are already several callers.

[Nate tha' Great]

It's not a matter of information leakage, which is a secondary concern here. It's a matter of value, pure and simple; your hand has a shitload of equity in this game against a typical 3-bet hand and a typical BB cold calling hand.