Did I play this badly? (Oh, and hello, my first post)

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

So, I'm pretty much in the same boat as you, I guess reading SSH will teach me how to play some hands better than I do currently.

I can count my outs also, if I bothered to, but usually I don't. I've been reading some posts here, and I don't know how calculate the outs like some of you do. For example, I wouldn't know to add 1.5 outs (or whatever) because of a backdoor flush draw. I need to practice it for a bit since I have no experience in counting outs properly.

EDIT: I did think that my AK might be ahead initially, which is why I bet it, but then the raise shook my confidence. The guy turned out to have two pair with 83o (I have no idea why he would cold-call two raises, but whatever) and the other one had a set. I got bitched at after winning this pot, which also made me question the correctness of my play, so I came here to seek advice from better players than I.

[prayformojo]

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I did think that my AK might be ahead initially, which is why I bet it, but then the raise shook my confidence.

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I wish my intuitive thinking were as spot on as this. When you bet out with overcards on the flop and get raised, you are absolutely right to think that you are probably beaten right now. This is not, however, a reason not to bet in the first place. In fact, this is exactly one of the reasons you do bet, for information. If you had checked and were bet into, it could mean any number of things, including a better hand, a drawing hand, a bluff, or "what the hell, why not bet?". For the price of one more SB betting out, you got a much stronger read on the raiser's hand. That said, you could still be ahead at this point, but you know that it is considerably less likely than if you had bet and been called.


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I got bitched at after winning this pot, which also made me question the correctness of my play, so I came here to seek advice from better players than I.

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Another excellent instinct (although I probably don't fall into that last category -- but many here do). At PP 2/4 I am seeing a lot of players who play absolute junk, catch a hand on the flop, then howl when they are drawn out by people who play it out correctly. "Chasers", as they call me and you, are fools. For them the hand starts and ends with the flop.

After a lot of criticism at the table, I also tend to bring my hand here. I think it's a good thing that wrong comments like those you got make you evaluate your play, but don't let it change your play without seeing some reasoning behind it.

[Bob T.]

Welcome to the forum. You also win the understatement of the week award... I'm a regular poster at RGP, but it's been getting rather chaotic over there,

Your play on the hand was fine.

[VeraN]

I'm probably the only person who would have folded after being reraised on the flop.

I mean you could say were somewhat commited but what if you didn't hit that runner runner flush? Does it still justify a good play? Lets say the river wasn't a heart and you rightfully fold after the BB bets, would it still be a great play that you stayed all the way till the river?

By the way I'm not trying to start any flaming, I'm just curious if folding on the flop might have been a good call.

[bisonbison]

By the way I'm not trying to start any flaming, I'm just curious if folding on the flop might have been a good call.

If you routinely fold the nut no-pair on this kind of board at Party 3/6, you're giving up a bit. A lot of people like to mess with preflop raisers. Based solely on the flop action, I would not be surprised if the flop raiser hand showed JT for overcards and a gutshot.

[VeraN]

I agree, but I believe it would have been a much easier call if he had two hearts rather than one in his pockets. If another heart didn't come out on the turn then it would have been no biggie and he could fold but in the long run, if you keep doing these plays where you are drawing for a runner runner with hardly any insurance, aren't you bound to lose more money than you gain?

[JohnShaft]

Vera, (on the flop) it's not about the hearts.

It's about
1. You have 6 outs to TPTK (Top pair/Top Kicker), a hand that is very likely good in this situation.
and 2. Your hand could actually be ahead already.

As has been said if you keep making laydowns like this people will start taking shots at you. And eventually you'll end up in games where people make plays like this at you all the time anyway. With nothing.
Folding on the flop is out of the questin getting 15-1 Pot Odds, when there is a 7-1 chance you improve to TPTK by seeing the Turn.

[VeraN]

Yea I agree completely with what you mean about how people on the tables will turn their aggression on you, which I don't think it's particularly a bad thing. I also understand that a lot of players don't have anything.

[nothumb]

Getting your opponents to bet/raise into you is often good in small stakes games, because they get so passive, but beware of a weak-tight image. You don't want people taking naked shots at you every time you miss with AK on the flop or one overcard falls to your pocket pair. Inducing action is good; inducing a lot of bluffs directed specifically at your weak-tight play is very bad.

NT

[ZimbuTheMonkey]

"You don't want people taking naked shots at you every time you miss with AK on the flop or one overcard falls to your pocket pair."

I think that usually happens because I passively play AK. If my opponents were the least bit attentive, I think they'd notice a pattern. I often do the "raise and check", and a sigh can be heard in the distance. [img]/images/graemlins/tongue.gif[/img]