How to play the Nuts - Page 2

LetYouDown · #11 05-16-2005, 12:05 PM

Leading shows more strength than check/minraising? Does this table have an absolutely obscene amounts of checkraising? With the "slow play everything" mentality that's incredibly rampant at the $50 NL tables, I lead everything. A lot of the donks see leading as an incredible sign of weakness (i.e. He can't possibly have the flush, why would he bet?) and raise you hard.

As a side question, do you honestly think that the *majority* of $50 NL players are folding a set there? Unless you've found one of the extremely rare tables, I'd say > half of the people will call you even when the flush draw hits.

MLerra · #12 05-16-2005, 01:22 PM

I actually like the minraise a lot, and that's what I would have done as well.

What I like about it is that it pisses people off (pisses me off too when it happens to me). If he had the flush, he'd get mad, sense weakness, and push (which is precisely what he did right?). If he had top pair or something, he'd get mad, and call because it was such a small raise. In that case, I'd likely follow up with a river "curiosity bet" - IE a small bet used when your opponent knows he's beat, but he just has to see what you've got just in case (in this case, perhaps $10 or $15 into a $50 pot). The big plus side too is that sometimes he'll sense weakness and push in, trying to bluff you out.

jonnyUCB · #13 05-16-2005, 01:52 PM

Leading the turn lends to better river play. By half-potting the turn you can assess the size of your river play in case he just calls. He could be calling with as crappy a hand as TP - Do you want to ch/r this hand?? Also if he checks behind he will call a medium bet on the river but not a big one.

When you lead a sizable amount u judge his reaction to the bet - does he like his hand a lot or so-so? If he reluctantly calls you can make a small-medium VB on the river, if he's glad to call or raises then all the better on the river. Checking the turn gives you no better action vs a piece of crap hand.

punter11235 · #14 05-16-2005, 02:03 PM

I agree. 90% of players play like this : they hit their flush --->>> they check, this is weak play, because :
a)you are not making pot bigger
b)check is not disguising your hand in any manner, only total donk will pay you even 1c more after checkraising the turn here (unless you are playing super sophisticated no limit)
What's the best, many players will call 3/4 pot bets on the flop and turn and when their hit their flush they check setting up their "witty" trap... sorry but this is pathetic to say the least. Just lead like a man [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Best wishes

LetYouDown · #15 05-16-2005, 02:20 PM

Couldn't...agree...more. People that check with the intention of checkraising here are my absolute favorite type of opponents. You might as well tell them you have Ad-Xd.

LetYouDown · #16 05-16-2005, 02:23 PM

As a sidenote, I think this type of hand is the NUMBER ONE reason I went from being a slight winner over time, to a big winner over time. People at the lower limits do actually try to put you on a hand, but they do it based on their line of thinking. (i.e. "I would NEVER bet the flush here, there's no way he has it!")

I avoid being "clever" like the plague at these limits. Funny, it's been almost two years and they still don't catch on.

punter11235 · #17 05-16-2005, 05:44 PM

Ok , this thread is funny [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] to add sth to our discussion I will show how in my opinion flush is supposed to be played [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (from 10minutes ago), enjoy :

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter

UTG ($294.00)
Hero ($98.00)
MP1 ($306.25)
MP2 ($81.75)
MP3 ($129.00)
CO ($320.75)
Button ($309.50)
SB ($167.75)
BB ($515.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2, 2 folds, MP3 calls $2, CO calls $2, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($12) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $11, MP3 calls $11, CO calls $11, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: ($45) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $26, MP3 raises to $85, CO calls $85, Hero calls $59.

River: ($300) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
(All-In) bets $31, CO calls $31.

Final Pot: $362

Results in white below: 
Hero has 9h Jh (flush, king high).
MP3 has Ah Qs (one pair, sevens).
CO has Ad As (two pair, aces and sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins $362. 

Anybody suspected anything ?
Best wishes

Marcotte · #18 05-16-2005, 06:48 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Anybody suspected anything ?
Best wishes

[/ QUOTE ]
I suspect CO is a moron.

Rockatansky · #19 05-16-2005, 07:08 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Ok , this thread is funny [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] to add sth to our discussion I will show how in my opinion flush is supposed to be played [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] (from 10minutes ago), enjoy :

Paradise Poker No-Limit Hold'em, $1 BB (9 handed) converter

UTG ($294.00)
Hero ($98.00)
MP1 ($306.25)
MP2 ($81.75)
MP3 ($129.00)
CO ($320.75)
Button ($309.50)
SB ($167.75)
BB ($515.75)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. SB posts a blind of $1.
UTG calls $2, Hero calls $2, 2 folds, MP3 calls $2, CO calls $2, 1 fold, SB (poster) completes, BB checks.

Flop: ($12) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero bets $11, MP3 calls $11, CO calls $11, SB folds, BB folds, UTG folds.

Turn: ($45) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
Hero bets $26, MP3 raises to $85, CO calls $85, Hero calls $59.

River: ($300) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
(All-In) bets $31, CO calls $31.

Final Pot: $362

Results in white below: 
Hero has 9h Jh (flush, king high).
MP3 has Ah Qs (one pair, sevens).
CO has Ad As (two pair, aces and sevens).
Outcome: Hero wins $362. 

Anybody suspected anything ?
Best wishes

[/ QUOTE ]

I strongly suspect that you shouldn't be posting advice hands.

pyedog · #20 05-16-2005, 08:44 PM

[ QUOTE ]

I strongly suspect that you shouldn't be posting advice hands.

[/ QUOTE ]

Why, what the hell's wrong with the way he played this hand? Calling with J9 suited from EP might be suspect but this table appears to just slightly passive with no raise preflop from AQ or AA in LP. Or is your beef that he's a bit short stacked for a $2 BB game?

Looks like a well played hand to me. I'm trying to convince my GF that she needs to start betting her big hands like made flushes straightforwardly since they won't call when they miss their draws on the river.