How to invest almost 7BB from the SB with 54s...anyone else play this?

[Nick C]

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Perfect. You have solid preflop equity with great implied odds. This is a nice call with so many people in preflop.

Krishan

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I don't know. I don't think Hero's hand will always be as live as it is in PokeHer's sample. (In that sample, only one of Hero's flush cards is out, and none of the 5's and 4's are.)

[Milky]

I think you played it fine. Sucks that he got there on the river but you definitely had the odds PF and couldn't know you were going to get LRR'd.

[krishanleong]

I think most of the time, your hand will be more live.

Krishan

[climber]

I think its +EV and would do it again.

I think the 3 bet the river suggestion is especially interesting and do need to at least learn to consider that move.

This is the kind of hand that does wonders for putting people on tilt when you hit and if you miss like this time they tend to think your the biggest chump in the world--which can also be helpful.

[Nick C]

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I think most of the time, your hand will be more live.

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I agree that the straight usually will be. I think the flush, on the other hand, usually won't. And when this many people see the flop, I think often a pair card of Hero's or two will be out as well, in hands like A4, K5s, 44, and so on.

[ZootMurph]

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I would have bet out on the flop. Generally looks like an SB steal of a big pot.

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Right. Stealing a capped 7 way pot with a single bet on the flop. I like your avatar anyways.

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The point I was making is you aren't going to scare anyone away with that bet, and you'll probably still be raised by the usual suspects and called by the usual suspects. Therefore, you are basic building the pot to the same amount without scaring people with a check/raise. I think that's what you want here.

I should change my avatar to baseball, but I'm not a Phillies fan, and my Reds haven't been doing well over recent years. I'll just wait until next year and see if hockey is worth watching/playing and put the Flyers logo back.

[Nick C]

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Equity wise it looks OK for me as long as we are probably 5-6+ handed? Implied odds are gonna be big here but its gonna be really expensive to see the turn or river so I'm not sure you can look at the equity numbers and count on implied odds? The 3 flop cards are going to be most important.

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I think it's important to understand that implied odds go down when you have to put in a lot of bets preflop. This is because you have more bets to make up postflop. True, others will be more tied to the pot, which makes making up bets easier.

One problem for a hand like 54s, that doesn't exist as much for, say, 22, is that you'll sometimes catch just enough of the flop that you have to stay in and chase, because of the pot size. And chasing can be expensive, especially if you're up against players who like their hands a lot.

With 22 on the other hand, you're more likely to flop big or to miss completely. And when you miss completely with 22 in a multiway pot, it's easy enough to give the hand up when you don't have the odds to continue chasing a set (which will usually take place on the flop but sometimes on the turn).

Anyway, I don't have a definite opinion on the initial preflop call, but I don't think you have a hand that really wants a big pot preflop. And I think your preflop equity, whatever it might be, is more significant in this case than implied odds.

[jt1]

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I would have bet out on the flop. Generally looks like an SB steal of a big pot. You'll get raised by at least one of the preflop raisers. I think the check/raise is nice, but you aren't losing anyone so build the pot rather than trying to protect your hand.

I think a stop and go would have been a better play, as you lost one on the check raise, and everyone became calling stations on the turn. Whereas with a stop and go you may have gotten raised and with many callers on the turn.


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I'm surprised you think that overs wouldn't fold on that flop to two sb's. I would want to get rid of the overs on the flop. It's a big enough pot to fret about runner runners.

Do you think the stop and go would produce a turn raise by one of the prf's? I'm not sure it would. I know that I'd raise with an overpair on the turn, but I don't think a mouse would.

I think he should try and protect his hand, and should do so on the flop.

[CostaRicaBill]

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I would have bet out on the flop. Generally looks like an SB steal of a big pot.

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I usually checkraise the flop or wait until the turn to come to life if I flop trips in the SB or BB with a board like 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img],4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. In my experience betting out will often freeze the field or even fold out everyone including the pre flop raiser.

[meep_42]

The pot is over 30SB on the flop -- overs would be correct to call FOUR bets cold.

Hero has huge equity and two PF raisers to his left. Check-raise all the way to build yourself a nice fat pot and get paid off by the AA-TTs out there (whose equity just dropped to about 8%)

-d