Almost a year on 2+2 and still can't play this basic crap...

[InchoateHand]

Uhh....at party .5/1, not playing Axs UTG is a long-term mistake. Certainly, after two limpers, A4s is a fine hand to play. I think you are leaving a lot of money on the table if you are only playing suited aces CO++ at the micros. A4s is a beautiful limping hand in LMP after two limpers.

[sin808]

With a couple of potential (strong) draws out there and a small pot I'd fold this without a second thought.

[blackaces13]

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I have to agree with the majority of the people here. A flop fold is not correct,

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This does NOT seem like the majority opinion to me at all.

[blackaces13]

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One thing that bothers me is that you say that you would have lost the hand anyway. Are you paying attention to EV? The result of the hand does not justify playing it wrong. I used to say "oh well, he made two pair and I would have lost" though I was ahead earlier in the hand." Now I realize that saying such things is a critical mistake.


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Dude, I know that results don't matter. In fact I believe I wrote that exact sentiment in plain black and white before I wrote out the results after a direct request from a previous poster. I was simply stating the facts of the rest of the hand, I know perfectly well that they are irrelevant.

[blackaces13]

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Since this is an unraised bet on the flop, I would definitely call.

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Calling is actually something I would not do because it doesn't give you any information about the other hands.


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Hmmmm...

[kureido]

Then just play any two suited cards.

I really don't see how my line with Axs can be extended to any two suited.

At what kicker do you play top pair aggresively?

Against many opponents, 9+. Against few opponents, 7+. Both assuming the board texture is favorable to top pair holding up.

-b

[flexus]

If your kicker was 8 or higher I would probably raise and try win the pot right there.


dude, that simply will not happen. What often happens though is they call the raise and turn and river bets with inferior hands.

[Gatts]

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Then just play any two suited cards.

I really don't see how my line with Axs can be extended to any two suited.

-b

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You said:

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When I play Axs, I'm looking to flop two pair or better, or a pair and a marginal draw, or a really good draw, against many opponents.

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You pretty much described how I'm playing something like 84s out of the blinds.

The reason why suited aces (and, to an extent, suited kings), is that you don't need anything more than a pair to win a good amount of pots.

I don't mind the fold on the flop. I'm just saying that you shouldn't automatically view TPNK has a horrible hand.

[Trix]

I dont live this situation either, but I have learned not to fold it for one bet on the flop...

I probably raise, bet turn and check river. Calling probably aren´t bad either.

[Cosimo]

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When I play Axs, I'm looking to flop two pair or better, or a pair and a marginal draw, or a really good draw, against many opponents.

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Then just play any two suited cards.

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With any two suited cards (that hit just one suited card on the flop), the only way to win is through the backdoor draw, which is rarely justified. Throw them away.

With Ax offsuit (that hits just a paired ace and no other draw), the primary way to win is through top pair, or a rare two-pair or trips. The chance of being dominated is high enough to disqualify playing it preflop.

When Axs hits top pair and a backdoor draw, it has a greater chance to win than top pair alone. That's worth staying in with, even though you're looking at primarily its top-pair potential. Axs combines the power of any two suited, adds high card potential, but also adds a few wins when the flush doesn't come in but the high card stands up.

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In other words, neither paired ace nor backdoor flush draw justifies a flop call. Together, both justify a flop call, and thereby the preflop call.