(33) - make cbet anyway over minbet? [Archive]

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schwza

09-20-2005, 12:35 PM

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t1810)
MP1 (t750)
MP2 (t1115)
Hero (t770)
Button (t775)
SB (t1105)
BB (t875)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 1 fold, MP2 calls t15, Hero raises to t75, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls t60, MP2 calls t60.

Flop: (t250) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 bets t15, MP2 calls t15, hero?

Rduke55

09-20-2005, 12:39 PM

I would. I'd consider this a weak probe bet. Or maybe a blocking-type bet. Raise to 100 or 125.

proell

09-20-2005, 01:56 PM

I see this a lot, and almost always it is a blocking bet that results in my taking the pot after a decent raise.

jeffraider

09-20-2005, 01:59 PM

Well I would probably not raise preflop here with two limpers in. If UTG+1 calls then MP2 is calling, and you've got a big pot with a pretty marginal hand (for this early on). You probably will have position though so raising can't be that bad or anything.

On the flop I think I'd probably just call and try to catch on the turn. I tend to play more passively early though, but a raise here is a good portion of your stack, say you pop it to 200 you've only got 500 behind with no pair no draw. I think there's something to be said for staying out of trouble early.

pokerlaw

09-20-2005, 02:03 PM

I call here and hope to improve on the turn. i dont like to make a raise here w/o a pair.

Edit: I also dont raise here PF, hence the weak flop play. i dont like putting chips here in this scenerio...

Dr_Jeckyl_00

09-20-2005, 02:13 PM

If you are going to make a c-bet this is certainly a great flop to make it (occassionally I c-bet, but I generally don't do this anymore). But it is level 1 and you are still in good shape chip wise, 2 people in pot, maybe call t15 and see what turn brings, fold turn if unimproved... but you raised 5xbb preflop and got callled by 2 people, and one of them has now put out a small bet on flop... WHY? Also, look at the stack size of your opponents in the hand, they can destroy you and you have nothing!! WARNING!!!

schwza

09-20-2005, 02:28 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I see this a lot, and almost always it is a blocking bet that results in my taking the pot after a decent raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

this has been my experience also, so i raised.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t1810)
MP1 (t750)
MP2 (t1115)
Hero (t770)
Button (t775)
SB (t1105)
BB (t875)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 1 fold, MP2 calls t15, Hero raises to t75, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls t60, MP2 calls t60.

Flop: (t250) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 bets t15, MP2 calls t15, Hero raises to t200, UTG+1 calls t185, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t665) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets t75, hero?

now what?

09-20-2005, 02:44 PM

fold like superman on laundry day.

jeffraider

09-20-2005, 02:45 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see this a lot, and almost always it is a blocking bet that results in my taking the pot after a decent raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

this has been my experience also, so i raised.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t1810)
MP1 (t750)
MP2 (t1115)
Hero (t770)
Button (t775)
SB (t1105)
BB (t875)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 1 fold, MP2 calls t15, Hero raises to t75, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls t60, MP2 calls t60.

Flop: (t250) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 bets t15, MP2 calls t15, Hero raises to t200, UTG+1 calls t185, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t665) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets t75, hero?

now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

Now you're in the exact spot that I was worried about. You've got 500 left, no pair no draw against a guy who minbet, called your massive raise and then led at you again. He HAS to have you beat here and I think it would be a miracle if he folded to your push, so this is a no-brainer fold.

pokerlaw

09-20-2005, 03:07 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
I see this a lot, and almost always it is a blocking bet that results in my taking the pot after a decent raise.

[/ QUOTE ]

this has been my experience also, so i raised.

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t15 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG (t800)
UTG+1 (t1810)
MP1 (t750)
MP2 (t1115)
Hero (t770)
Button (t775)
SB (t1105)
BB (t875)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif, A/images/graemlins/diamond.gif.
1 fold, UTG+1 calls t15, 1 fold, MP2 calls t15, Hero raises to t75, 3 folds, UTG+1 calls t60, MP2 calls t60.

Flop: (t250) 6/images/graemlins/spade.gif, 3/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 8/images/graemlins/club.gif (3 players)
UTG+1 bets t15, MP2 calls t15, Hero raises to t200, UTG+1 calls t185, MP2 folds.

Turn: (t665) 5/images/graemlins/diamond.gif (2 players)
UTG+1 bets t75, hero?

now what?

[/ QUOTE ]

this is the reason I hate raising here, with some players, a small bet = a small hand. however, others like to trap w/ a small bet. Unless i have SB = SH in my player notes, I dont RR this flop.

Now that you are where you are, its time to fold and play the next hand. also, i would put "trap bettor" or the like in villain's notes.

schwza

09-20-2005, 03:56 PM

i convinced myself that villain had a hand like 98 or 54 and that i should call getting 10:1 on the turn. i shoulda folded. blech. i still think the flop raise was fine, although a call would also be alright.