breaking the 10x bb rule

[schwza]

sorry, bisonbison not working. this is a 33.

limper is loose and passive pre-flop, meaning that if i push, i would not be surprised to get called by a wide range, including JT, A7, TT, etc. the short SB has been tight. BB is not too aggro, so i don't expect to push to pick up limps w/o a strong hand.

i've been getting in this whole thing of not busting myself on the bubble, so i didn't want to push even though i'm sure it'd be very +chipEV. but i thought my hand was too good to muck. so how's this line? what if i had AK?

200/400 Tourney Texas Hold'em Game Table (NL)
Seat 8 is the button
Total number of players : 4
Seat 6: AlBonia (3175)
Seat 8: hero (1120)
Seat 9: Krogoth (560)
Seat 10: eyesee (3145)
Krogoth posts small blind (100)
eyesee posts big blind (200)
** Dealing down cards **
Dealt to hero [ Qh, Ad ]
AlBonia calls (200)
hero calls (200)
Krogoth folds.
eyesee checks.
** Dealing Flop ** : [ Qs, Ks, 3s ]
eyesee checks.
AlBonia bets (300)
hero folds.
eyesee folds.
** Summary **
Main Pot: 1000
Board: [ Qs Ks 3s ]
AlBonia balance 3675, bet 500, collected 1000, net +500
hero balance 920, lost 200 (folded)
Krogoth balance 460, lost 100 (folded)
eyesee balance 2945, lost 200 (folded)

[Freudian]

With your read on the player, I would push preflop.

I would probably push on this flop also, if he habitually tried to pick up the pot in this manner.

[Unarmed]

Wow.
Push or fold PF, you know this. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
With your read on the player, I would push preflop.

I would probably push on this flop also, if he habitually tried to pick up the pot in this manner.

[/ QUOTE ]

he was pretty loose-passive post flop also, so i was pretty happy folding.

[durron597]

Even if the blinds go up, the SB is not allin in his next 4 hands. Just push, play for first.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
Wow.
Push or fold PF, you know this. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

ok. which one?

[Phill S]

I hate the 10BB rule. Its so wrong in most situations that i barely see when its right.

And youve tried mixing it up, good. You limped AQ, bad.

Push here, AK i fold preflop, dont want to be too ABC in my play /images/graemlins/grin.gif

Phill

[Unarmed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow.
Push or fold PF, you know this. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

ok. which one?

[/ QUOTE ]
Push. Shorty isn't short enough, and you're not deep enough. Don't let a rough ITM patch cause you to play sub-optimally.

[gumpzilla]

I think if you're not going to push preflop, you really need to be willing to get it in here once you flop the Q. I think he's probably betting with a worse Q or a junky pair at least as often as he is betting with a K.

Pushing PF is probably still the way to go here, even with the shortstack. Even if you're getting called by a somewhat broad range, I think you'll still fold him often enough and do well enough against that range that it's +$EV, but I'm just guessing. By contrast, if the limper had pushed instead, then folding becomes pretty clearly correct, I think.

[schwza]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Wow.
Push or fold PF, you know this. /images/graemlins/smile.gif

[/ QUOTE ]

ok. which one?

[/ QUOTE ]
Push. Shorty isn't short enough, and you're not deep enough. Don't let a rough ITM patch cause you to play sub-optimally.

[/ QUOTE ]

it's less of a rough ITM patch and more of a growing belief that i'm way to willing to go broke in 4th. this was largely caused by a thread ~ a week ago where i thought it would be horrible to fold AQ in the BB on the bubble with a shortie still alive, but a lot of smart people weighed in with legit arguments for folding. i'd link to it, but i'm kinda lazy /images/graemlins/frown.gif

maybe i'll just sack up and get powertools so i run the numbers instead of stumbling around blindly.

[RobGW]

Wow. AQ 4 handed with a habitual limper and $500 of dead money? No way i am folding this. My stack gets pushed in here everytime. Not sure what post you are referring to but I would bet there are some significant differences.

[schwza]

yeah, it was obviously different, but had similar themes. i tracked down the thread (http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=singletable&Number=2821535 &Forum=,All_Forums,&Words=&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&M ain=2819452&Search=true&where=&Name=2552&daterange =&newerval=&newertype=&olderval=&oldertype=&bodypr ev=#Post2821535)