Gives trouble to me, that KQ does....

[Eevee]

I just watched Stars Wars 3 /images/graemlins/smile.gif

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (7 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

SB (t3105)
BB (t1095)
UTG (t985)
MP1 (t1475)
MP2 (t740)
Hero (t1035)
Button (t1565)

Preflop: Hero is CO with K/images/graemlins/spade.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif.
<font color="#666666">3 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">Hero raises to t150</font>, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>, SB calls t125, <font color="#666666">1 fold</font>.

Flop: (t350) 3/images/graemlins/club.gif, K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, 4/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
SB bets 1000.
Hero?

And this:

Party Poker No-Limit Hold'em Tourney, Big Blind is t50 (8 handed) converter (http://www.selachian.com/tools/bisonconverter/hhconverter.cgi)

UTG+1 (t890)
MP1 (t2500)
MP2 (t905)
CO (t1095)
Button (t1270)
SB (t570)
Hero (t1335)
UTG (t1435)

Preflop: Hero is BB with Q/images/graemlins/spade.gif, K/images/graemlins/spade.gif.
<font color="#666666">2 folds</font>, <font color="#CC3333">MP1 raises to t100</font>, <font color="#666666">4 folds</font>, Hero calls t50.

Flop: (t225) K/images/graemlins/diamond.gif, T/images/graemlins/club.gif, Q/images/graemlins/heart.gif <font color="#0000FF">(2 players)</font>
Hero check raises?

-EV

[mcpherzen]

With many opponents (i.e. early levels of an SNG), KQ is uber-challenging to play in a raised pot. Muck most of the time the pot is raised to you, and for the sake of Pedro, don't raise the pot yourself with it.

--Z

[McBandit]

Hand #1:

I insta-call. I am almost never beat when someone overbets a pot like this against me. I have to have a player note that they are capable of playing a set this way before i fold. I would call and expect to see a weak king, str8 draw or under pocket pair (or nothing). Is is important to tell us how the guy got that large stack, did he trap with big hands or is he a maniac? If either of those are true, the call is 100% IMHO.

Hand #2

Ya, I would likely checkraise the flop all-in if he threw out a pot-sized bet. The only hands that beat you are the least likely ones for him to have. You want him to have AA/AK here. The other option I might do is smooth call the flop and push the turn if a safe card hits (ie. no A or J).

Good luck,
McBandit/Daddys_visa

[gumpzilla]

[ QUOTE ]
With many opponents (i.e. early levels of an SNG), KQ is uber-challenging to play in a raised pot. Muck most of the time the pot is raised to you, and for the sake of Pedro, don't raise the pot yourself with it.

[/ QUOTE ]

My feeling is that this is pretty buy-in dependent. At lower levels where people will routinely overplay top pair weak kicker, and will play K9 and the like for a raise as a matter of course, KQ is almost as good as AQ (in my opinion). Against tighter opposition that isn't likely to pay me off with worse kickers I'd probably get more tentative with KQ.

[lastchance]

I bet out in the second hand. I think I could get raised here, and that flop scares me, giving up a free card wouldn't be good.

[Eevee]

Yeah...this was 20+2...i was 4 tabling/eating/aiming/2+2ing/making a card castle, so no reads...

-EV

[bluefeet]

#1: i agree with mcpherzen...don't mind the coming in from CO in an unopened pot (i'd actually fold), but i don't like the raise.

taking a look at the flop regardless:

what does he beat you with? AA,KK,AK, set, 2-pair

with your broke ass raising into him ( /images/graemlins/wink.gif), there's no way he's not puttin you in PF with either of the 1st four.

likewise, if he hit 2-pair, he's letting the PF raiser hit the pot on that non-drawin board.

i think he was a little defiant...calling w/K10ish. flopped TP and hammered it. i call.

#2: no problem calling on a monster draw hand like that. i'm curious if you had a LA read on PF raiser chip dog? minraise from MP is a little suspicious. you holding a K and Q, makes KK/QQ less likely. that only leaves AJ or TT. a minraise w/ TT doesn't seem plausable IMO. AJ? maybe. no flush draw on board, and despite all the paint...i think the check-raise is a good move. if he doesn't bite, i'm hitting the turn hard - anything between T400 and push.

[shejk]

It's a call for the first hand and check-call push on any safe card for the second one.

[jon_1van]

I call the first hand...I don't like doing it but I will. I just can't see anything that beats you thinking he'll get action by betting 3x pot. So I grit my teeth and call.


The 2nd hand I figure this. I ignore being up against a set because I have 2 pair. I worry about the other guy having Ax (where x is a K,Q,or J)...I worry but I'm gonna risk his drawing out because I think I can get him to double me up. And I think it will be worth the risk. So, I check, call the flop. I bet the turn about 1/2 pot if he checks behind on the flop. I check the turn if he bet the flop when I checked it to him. If the action goes check,bet,call on the flop. It will go check, bet , push if the opponent obliges. If he checks behind on the turn after I check call him on the flop, I'll put in an ambigious value/steal bet in on the river.

Over all I think if it possible for me to get any action at all I can double up if I risk a 4 (maybe 6) outer type draw against me. If the opponent has something like 77 and won't put a dime more in the pot I'm only risking a 2 outer if he takes the free card.

I think I will generate enough doubt in a players head to get them commited to a hand like AK,AQ, or AA.

[curtains]

The first one should be an easy call against most online opponents.

[Blarg]

[ QUOTE ]
I bet out in the second hand. I think I could get raised here, and that flop scares me, giving up a free card wouldn't be good.

[/ QUOTE ]

It seems to me in the second hand that whether the raiser hit his hand or not, it's an auto bet for him for a number of reasons.

First, if he has a hand, he wants to get paid for it.

Second, if he doesn't, he wants to bluff that he does and scoop the pot that wayh.

Third, not betting that board is an extreme show of weakness for him, considering the board. It would make an auto-bet on the turn by BB with any two cards reasonably likely, and fairly likely to automatically take the pot.

So with or without a hand, and whether he wants to or not, the original raiser is going to find it almost impossible not to bet that flop.

[Blarg]

AK or AQ vs the KQ two pair is a 7-outer -- 3 aces and 4 jacks.

I don't think this hand is going to the turn without a bet, anyway.

[curtains]

[ QUOTE ]
With many opponents (i.e. early levels of an SNG), KQ is uber-challenging to play in a raised pot. Muck most of the time the pot is raised to you, and for the sake of Pedro, don't raise the pot yourself with it.

--Z

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, god forbid someone should raise with KQo first in from the cutoff seat.

[Nick B.]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
With many opponents (i.e. early levels of an SNG), KQ is uber-challenging to play in a raised pot. Muck most of the time the pot is raised to you, and for the sake of Pedro, don't raise the pot yourself with it.

--Z

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes, god forbid someone should raise with KQo first in from the cutoff seat.

[/ QUOTE ]

I might be in trouble, I have raised with it UTG before.

[Nick B.]

The first hand is an easy push/call. What could he possible play this way that beats you.

The second I would probably lead and get all in on the flop. I would hate to give a free card and he only min raised, so he might not have that good of a hand. I wouldn't expect him to autobet this flop.

[raptor517]

[ QUOTE ]
Yes, god forbid someone should raise with KQo first in from the cutoff seat.

[/ QUOTE ]

god forbid indeed. even worse to raise from the button first in. its a sin.

ok ok ok, ill stop that. KQ is tricky. period. if the player is not experienced in poker, and cant manage to make a fold post flop, then he SHOULD NOT be playing KQ in the first 2 levels. period. the end. allah akbar. holla

[curtains]

Yes but if you don't want to learn how to play KQo here, why do you waste your time reading 2+2 and trying to improve your game. It's clearly correct to play the hand, and I assume everyone here wants to play correctly in the long run.

[Atropos]

Hand 1: You have to call. If he got a set/TPTK make a note about it, but against average party fish this is instacall.

Hand 2: Check-Raise all-in seems better than betting, if you suspect that he'll check behind an overbet seems in order, because there are many evil cards that can come.

Dont know if I like calling a minraise out of position with KQs without deep stacks, but that is more a matter of personal preference.

[CWolf]

This is pretty much ditto to most posts here, but:

Hand 1: Instant call, no thought about it.

Hand 2: I would go for a check-raise. Your hand is pretty vulnerable, but if by some odd chance he checks behind you, you can reevaluate the hand if a scary card falls i.e A or J, and it shouldn't be too hard of a fold if he makes a strong play for the pot, but if a blank comes, you can confidently bet at the pot, and very likely take it down. You may induce a bad call from a weaker hand because of the obvious stealing position you're in after he checks the flop.

[ripped]

First hand call

second hand bet it out. Too many cards that can hurt you on the turn. You want to take this pot down now or make the draws pay.