Calling an all-in with a big draw - Live no limit in Vegas

[Al_Capone_Junior]

Goooooooood game. Player to my left is somewhat of a wildman. He would raise anywhere from 2$ to $20 about 35% of the time preflop. Post flop he'll bet with anything and everything, especially if he had raised preflop. Having had a run of luck in the past, his wild nature had been paid off, but by this time his luck had been changing and he was down to less than $50. Other than him, most of the players are passive and predictable.

Blinds 1-1-2. I had 5s4s in the BB. Wildman is UTG and makes it six to go. SIX players called and I ponied up the extra $4, EIGHT players in the pot.

Flop came 467 rainbow. No one seems very interested in the flop cards. I check, wildman goes all in for $25, all fold to me, I call. I figured...

1. I might have the best hand with a pair of fours.

2. I might win the pot by making my draw (with as many as 13 outs, 8 straight cards, and five two pair/trips cards).

3. Given there was $48 + $25 = $73 in the pot, I was getting about 3:1 on my call.

4. Since he was all in, beyond the flop betting was not an issue.

5. The combination of all of the above factors made calling the right play.

Comments?

al

[SpaceAce]

You're heads-up with a maniac who has been bleeding chips. You have a pair and an open-ended straight draw. You're getting almost 3:1 to call. I think folding would be criminal.

SpaceAce

[fsuplayer]

Easy call 100% of the time, even if he flips over AA, im still calling.

fsuplayer

[Guy McSucker]

Hey Al,

Ummm.... I can hardly believe you're asking this! You're probably winning, you have plenty of outs if not, and the pot odds are favourable to say the least. You know this is the right move, same as I do.

The same goes for preflop. Who wouldn't make that call, closing the betting?

I think this hand speaks volumes to the debate about whether you want the maniac to your left or right in no-limit.

C'mon, own up: you made this post to advertise your game because you want to attract all us online fishies. Didn't you? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Guy.

[Al_Capone_Junior]

i made the post just to confirm what I already knew cuz someone did not agree that calling was the best play. however, even if I knew that my EV was only slightly above zero, I should still call. It is theoretically wrong to pass on any edge that does not have significant future implications.

On the hand, I figured I was beat a large % of the time. However, with 14 clean outs (assuming all were clean) I was still getting an overlay, a rather nice one. If two of my outs were dead, as was actually the case, I was getting a smaller overlay, but one I would be very wrong to turn down.

There was of course the chance I had the best hand, which makes a HUGE difference, even if it's only a small chance.

And of course there was a tiny chance I was drawing near dead if he flopped the nut straight. I'll look for monsters under someone else's bed tho, no way I am folding here.

al

[Unarmed]

Just out of curiosity, were you thinking your hand odds with 14 outs were 2.4-1 or 0.95-1? If its the former then I could see how it was a somewhat tough call as the pot was 3-1. But given he's all in you know you're seeing both the turn and river so your hand odds are actually 0.95-1, making this a no-brainer...

Sorry if I'm stating the obvious here.

[RollaJ]

[ QUOTE ]
The combination of all of the above factors made calling the right play.

[/ QUOTE ]

I think calling is wrong, I say you have to come over the top and though you didnt say your stack size Id make it 100 to go before calling in that spot, if you just call people behind you are getting 5-1 odds to call too, and those are correct odds for any pair or any 5 with an overcard kicker, and any 8-9

[Guy McSucker]

[ QUOTE ]

I think calling is wrong, I say you have to come over the top


[/ QUOTE ]

The bet is all-in and everyone else has folded.

Guy.

[RichSaneSwindler]

A couple of observations:

- with 8 people in the pot, Wildman knows that someone has a piece of this flop, so you can bet he is moving in with at least two pair. Given he is a maniac I think you can assume he is holding 2 pair most of the time. So you have ten outs (4 threes, 4 eights and 2 fours) plus running 5's to beat him. With 10 outs and two cards to come you getting approximately 2:1 to call.

- Another poster said that you would have to make it 100 to go, but since everyone folded to you this is not an issue.

- I say you call b/c you are in with a maniac who probably has 2 pair and the pot is laying you 3:1 and you are 2:1 to win.

-RSS

[felson]

Call. Yawn.