Paying less rake sites

[MS Sunshine]

I'm unsure if these small start-up sites that are willing to take less for their cut will ever have ANY effect on the current market mostly standard rake structure.

The problem is they come with fleas, I mean big fukin mutant ones. They don't have enough capitalization for the start-up when it is most needed at it's opening. Almost all plan on cashflow to increase what is spent on marketing. This means that there is zero chance of them reaching a critical mass of players during the first 3 months. Another small site that will always stay small, or fold, whether a fixed rake cost strategy has merit or not. What has merit is money to create a PR buzz, killer promos, competent support staff, and decent software. Marketing mostly to internet poker pros by spamming forums results in a few poor games. IMO

The two sites being mentioned the most have problems with the tactics used by those involved with them. I have a firm rule these days:

Stick with the big sites, or those small sites, that can be trusted. AND stay far away from those small sites run by slime. I consider anyone that launches a full-court spam attack on a poker community forum as someone I do not wish to do business with. Along with anyone that owes me $55,838.

I'm willing to debate this with any respected poster here AND ONE of the recent spammers, clones or one of their little evil minions. If you do not wish to honor this condition of this thread I would hope the regulars would just let this thread die.

MS Sunshine

[daveymck]

I am still unsure who is related to what on the people posting here ie who really is involved with zero rake.

But if they wanted people to take them seriously then starting sensible discussions about the site ie features go live date etc in the same mould as Gaming Club Guy is the way to go.

However what we have had is a confusing spam/pro one site/anti another and more dead horses flogged than the knackers yard knows what to do with.

At the moment rake or no rake there is no reason to play at that site, no players and as yet an unproven working business model.

As I have said in a previous post 3-6 months is the earliest to play imho.

[Thythe]

I'm in complete agreeance. Also, I'd like to question why people come up with the idea to open up a brand new card room. In the last months or year have any of the new sites been successful? Not that I can think of. It's hard for these guys, but you can't open up a small store next to your local Supervalu/Cosco/Sam's Club/Osco/etc and hope to survive.

[Alobar]

I'm still not convinced that the recent spamming is from anyone who actually has a stake in zerorake. A site with the potential to save someone alot of money is going to cause them to become excited, it could be just one regular guy who got overzealous and decided to "help" the site out on his own because they really want it to succeed, and spammed away thinking he was doing some good.

I would think that any competent person with enough intelligance to gain financial backing and start a company such as a poker site would realize spamming message boards in this manner wouldn't be a good PR move, or if they did do it, would at least do it in a much more intelligent manner than has been done so far.

It's also very plausable that it is someone who doesn't want a rake free site to succeed. There are a ton of affiliates on these boards, and some who make a very nice sum of cash everymonth, that they would lose out on if a rake free site took off. If you also look at the tactics employed by some affiliates it isn't very shcoking to think that one of them might be behind this. I'm not saying thats the case, I'm just saying its a possibility.

I think this situation is alot like putting someone on a poker hand, there is a range of possibilites and you can make sense of their actions based on those possibilites. The simple fact is we don't know for sure. Either way the whole thing has become a bit annoying, and I hope it dies out and anything on the subject of the actual site that gets posted is of relevant information (i.e. cashout problems, or lack thereoff, or support issues or whatever).

As for weather or not a rake free site will actually work. I Think it will. There is money to be made by someone who can pull it off correctly. I have my doubts as to weather this will be zerorake, more than likely they will die but hopefully pave the way for the company that eventually can make it work. But I still plan to give them a shot, and try to support them with my play and a small part of my bankroll.

[Instyle007]

[ QUOTE ]
It's also very plausable that it is someone who doesn't want a rake free site to succeed. There are a ton of affiliates on these boards, and some who make a very nice sum of cash everymonth, that they would lose out on if a rake free site took off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, the negative posters may definitely have their own agendas.

I think the bottom line is this, the idea is too good to be held down. If it's ZeroRake.com or not, rake free online poker is the next generation of the game.

One's math's skills need not be too sharp to understand how much money can be saved, playing rake free. In only a few hours of play, I've saved myself about $30 that would have been taken from me if I were at any rake site.

I just can't get over how negative a lot of people here are when people who actually like a site post.

If you could save a buddy a ton of cash, wouldn't you?

Instyle007

[sumdumguy]

I can refer you to at least three other sites that you can play rake free.

No monthly membership cost.
No deposit charges.
No cash out charges.

I don't understand what is so special about this zerorake-dot-com site.

[Alobar]

[ QUOTE ]
I can refer you to at least three other sites that you can play rake free.

No monthly membership cost.
No deposit charges.
No cash out charges.

I don't understand what is so special about this zerorake-dot-com site.

[/ QUOTE ]

oh yeah?

[dogsballs]

saw your avatar pic of armstrong, alobar. Hey, lance - or rather the US postal - better watch out for their old team mate, roberto herras in the mountains. He could break some cyclists there.

I'm putting some $$ on roberto for the whole thing (25-1 Ladbrokes) [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img] [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]

[Flawed]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
It's also very plausable that it is someone who doesn't want a rake free site to succeed. There are a ton of affiliates on these boards, and some who make a very nice sum of cash everymonth, that they would lose out on if a rake free site took off.

[/ QUOTE ]

I agree, the negative posters may definitely have their own agendas.

I think the bottom line is this, the idea is too good to be held down. If it's ZeroRake.com or not, rake free online poker is the next generation of the game.

One's math's skills need not be too sharp to understand how much money can be saved, playing rake free. In only a few hours of play, I've saved myself about $30 that would have been taken from me if I were at any rake site.

I just can't get over how negative a lot of people here are when people who actually like a site post.

If you could save a buddy a ton of cash, wouldn't you?

Instyle007

[/ QUOTE ]

Im with most here I dont like the zerorake/rakefree ideas and dont think they'll ever get off the ground, most of the reasons were already pointed out. I am an affiliate, but that has nothing to do with it I just dont like the idea.

high rake, agressive marketing, and lots of promos Is the marketing strategy I like. Party thought so too its just a shame as soon as they built a player base they cut back on promos and soon later raised the rake. Absolute used this strategy aswell and theyre currently in the cut back promo phase.

Remember in the end rake means nothing party could double their rake if i make more money playing there against a bunch of fish than at zero rake agaisnt moderatly good players Im going to play at Party.

As for where to play how about
600 hands every month at Inter
500 hands at Caribbean
600 hands at Plex
500 hands at Total
500 hands at UK
500 hands at Little
500 hands at Ritz
500 hands at betfair
500 hands at WillHill

apx. 4700 hands every month rake free plus the promos (bad beat, royal flush, get paid to play, and daily specials) US residents get a raw deal but theres still a few hands to be played.

[Syntax]

I don't know whether you think I am one of the evil minions or spammers or even a person with an affiliation to ANY site. If you want to debate this with a mild mannered college student moonlighting as a semi-recreational low limit online poker player and the person who started this whole mess, I'm your man.

Lets clear a few things up first:

1) I know that forum admins can log IP's. We can bring this to Matt and clear my name if you really have a doubt about my authenticity.

[ QUOTE ]
I consider anyone that launches a full-court spam attack on a poker community forum as someone I do not wish to do business with

[/ QUOTE ]

2) I agree that the atmosphere around this topic has been a litte crazy, and terms shill, spam etc have been whimsically thrown around and passively accepted. However, I don't neccesarily agree that ANYONE has spammed this board or even RGP for that matter. I can only speak for myself, but I introduced the Zerorake.com discussions to this board, and I have no affiliation with them at all. I haven't even downloaded the software. Most of the threads and posts about this site appear to be from genuinely interested players wanting to discuss the latest thing with fellow poker players. Lets not forget, this is a discussion board created for exactly that purpose. Maybe not so ironically, I am more skeptical about the opposite. There are a lot of affiliates and people already on these boards from already establised sites. There are millions of dollars at stake to these other people and/or companies if a rakefree site succeeds. I really question the motives of anyone around here discussing zerorake in a negative light.

3) There are already paid advertisements from zerorake on this site, cardplayer and pokerpages. I don't know if they also use hired people to start discussion threads and honestly, I don't care. If it gets people talking and sparks interest, good for them. I would only have a problem with this if they weren't paying to advertise and they were deceptively planting false information such as cashout requests etc.

I am not affiliated with any site and I don't think I am a "respected poster", but if you want to keep this debate open with me, I am up for it.