20-40 Hand

[HammerinHank]

Bay 101 20-40

Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB. Five limpers. I check. Flop is T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Checked to the button who is a fairly solid agressive player. Button bets, I raise. Folded backto the button (yes bay 101, really) who calls. Turn T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, button raises. What's my next move.

[slavic]

Button bets, I raise

why?

[Tosh]

I feel the same as Slavic, why do you check raise the flop here and shut people out?

[slavic]

Perhaps I’m too short with words here. There are reasons to check raise this flop but you have to be very certain of your player, and in a field of 5 players I’m not check raising here even if I knew I could manipulate a player properly.

This is an action flop, so if you bet out people will put you on just about anything but more importantly they want to believe that they have something so they are going to at least call and may even raise a few times. A flush draw would love to cap, as would Mr. Two pair, and Mr. top pair really wants to see the turn, so does any J or any 7. Heck half the deck wants to be on the payment plan, but a double bet really makes it hard to call when your drawing thin.

As to how you played the hand if your Button is aware, you have way under represented your hand. He may have anything from a big draw now representing 3 T’s to a top full. I’ll discount quads, just because I do. So since I fully expect him to call a 3 bet, I 3 bet. If he has the fortitude to 4 bet I call and check call the river. Otherwise I lead all the way.

[HammerinHank]

I check raised to get out the weak diamond draws. I thought this was correct, but now I expect to be ripped. I'm ready.

[bugstud]

[ QUOTE ]
I check raised to get out the weak diamond draws. I thought this was correct, but now I expect to be ripped. I'm ready.

[/ QUOTE ]

Diamonds will never, ever fold. just jam the pot with as many people tossing in chips as possible.

[chesspain]

[ QUOTE ]
Bay 101 20-40

Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] in the BB. Five limpers. I check. Flop is T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. Checked to the button who is a fairly solid agressive player. Button bets, I raise. Folded backto the button (yes bay 101, really) who calls. Turn T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I bet, button raises. What's my next move.

[/ QUOTE ]

Turn the clock back thirty seconds so that you can bet out on this beautiful flop with your well disguised hand.

[HammerinHank]

[ QUOTE ]
to how you played the hand if your Button is aware, you have way under represented your hand. He may have anything from a big draw now representing 3 T’s to a top full. I’ll discount quads, just because I do. So since I fully expect him to call a 3 bet, I 3 bet. If he has the fortitude to 4 bet I call and check call the river. Otherwise I lead all the way.


[/ QUOTE ]

I three bet and he tossed QJ face up in the muck.

[slavic]

I three bet and he tossed QJ face up in the muck.

Wow there is a fellow who sees monsters under the bed.

[elysium]

hi hammer
o.k., you really screwed this one up, big time. huge error. but the mistake you make can be easy to make and i am sure we all here have made this very same mistake, and kicked ourselves afterwards.

what is happening is that you have fallen victim to being overly sensitive that any sudden move by you will spook out the good size field that you want to earn the highest amount against by playing your hand at its optimum level. and you're fixated by the prospects of its earning potential. your good preditory instincts almost involuntarily prevent you from making any sudden movements that might cause an evacuation of the field. and so you check. if you were hunting with a spear and suddenly spotted a herd of wooly mamouth, you would have stopped in your tracks and stopped advancing forward, even though you may not have yet entered into within range.

the problem here though is that you are not the only stalker in the field, nor are you alone solely the only one capable of causing an evacuation flight. and between these two separate stalking forces, you are less horrifying to the field than your competitive stalker adversary. but your adversary is even more stealthier than you due to the camouflage afforded him by the all consuming strength of your powerhouse that has fixated you so. and so you don't see the dangerous opposing force that is about to cause an evacuation of this large multi-way field. the adversary? open ended coordination developing into horrifying coordination; by far the most panic inducing form of coordination. it would be less horrifying if the board was two-toned even though there is a slightly greater chance that your competition, the next card coming off, will produce a possible completed flush. then, the horror is modified somewhat by the prospect that even though you may be hopelessly beaten, the three flush cards on board mean that your opponents are not quite so likely to have exactly that particular suit, albeit there will still be some flight in the field, and your prospects will have dimmed somewhat.

but when you allow the board to four straight on you by checking and giving infinite odds that not you but rather the next card coming off will stand up and announce your hand, scaring away the field, the very thing that you are trying to avoid remaining motionless now takes place against you for free due to your failure to understand the urgency of the situation. this is not necessarily true those times that the dealer flops down a monotone because a slightly different set of dynamics is taking place, but it is very true those times he flops down a three straight. you must act decisively and immediately when the three straight flop gives you a powerhouse, whether that powerhouse is top two, a set, or lower completed straight, or even the nut straight. all such made hands are extremely vulnerable to absolute horror, and although we are told that we aren't playing against the dealer, in this one instance we must immediately and decisively charge the dealer the maximum amount we subjectively can, and make him pay the relative fullest to announce-out on us.