How do you handle landing a good hand when the flop is dangerous?

[Leibniz]

I play a lot of 2/4 and 4/8 hold'em and have studied 2+2 books quite a bit. I have a basic question. If you flop a set or a straight or another otherwise good hand, but the flop also comes with 2 or 3 suited cards or a straight draw for someone else.

Now, do you bet it hard to charge the people drawing to pay for their cards or do you resign yourself to the fact, that no matter how much you bet or how hard you play it, these people are going to draw out no matter what, so you might as well check and call until your hand holds up, or until they hit their drawing hand and you can fold?

Thanks for the input!

Shannon

[jmark]

That 3rd flush or straight card will only come about 1/2.5 of the time and alot of the time nobody was actually on that draw, so you are a good favorite to win and should get the most money in the pot. You actually don't want the drawers to fold (though irrationally you do). You can also improve to a full house which is very profitable if they also hit a flush.

Just think of what your opponent wants you to do and do the opposite. If they're drawing they want you to check, so bet.

[sthief09]

a set is different from a straight in this situation (assuming a 3-flush board). a set still has a great redraw (7, then 10 outs), while a straight has none. either way, you should play this hand very, very fast. I wouldn't be ready to put anyone on a flush until the turn.

the way you should think of it is "I'm going to win the vast majority of the time here, since most my opponents with just a pair are drawing thin, and those with a spade draw will only hit 1/3 of the time. Since I'm going to win so often, I want as much money in the pot as possible."

[sthief09]

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You actually don't want the drawers to fold (though irrationally you do).

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in a big pot, you want the drawers to fold, usually even if they aren't getting odds to call. even in a small pot, you want anyone who's getting proper odds to fold. if someone folds the J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] on a board of 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]8 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]6 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] and you're holding 99, you've gained since it's possible that no one else has a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. if he saw everyone's hand seeing that no one had a [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] he'd call.

you would, however, want the J [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] calling if the A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] was in someone's hand, since he's drawing dead to everyone..

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Just think of what your opponent wants you to do and do the opposite. If they're drawing they want you to check, so bet.

[/ QUOTE ]

there are a lot of exceptions to this. I don't like this philosophy at all.

[Kevin]

Like KQ (no spade) when Js 10s 2s flops - and there is a bet and raise in front of you?

If you make it 3 and it is capped back. no spade on turn and one of the raisers bets back into you?

This one really baffles me.

Kevin

[RockSolid]

Your question is in a bit of a vacuum. You will likely glean additional information from what happened pre-flop. If it is a multi-way pot, players may be getting correct odds to draw. Some will come anyway. I agree, however, that you need to play it pretty fast.

For example, if you hold 9 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 9 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] and the flop comes:

9 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

the players with A [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 10 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] and any QJ are coming to the river anyway. May as well make them pay for it.

[sthief09]

he's talking about scarier boards. preflop action doesn't really matter that much, other than it affecting the pot size.