Party 15/30 - Did I push this too hard?

[samdash]

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: samdash is BB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, samdash calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (8 SB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">samdash bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, <font color="CC3333">SB 3-bets</font>, <font color="CC3333">samdash caps</font>, MP1 calls, Button calls, SB calls.

Turn: (12 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">samdash bets</font>, MP1 calls, <font color="CC3333">Button raises</font>, SB calls, <font color="CC3333">samdash 3-bets</font>, MP1 folds, Button calls, SB calls.

River: (22 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, <font color="CC3333">samdash bets</font>, Button calls, SB calls.

Final Pot: 25 BB
<font color="green">Main Pot: 25 BB, between Button, SB and samdash.</font>

[samdash]

Button tried to isolate the limper preflop with J2s and the SB had KQ. So I was behind the whole way but had a lot of outs. Do I gain anything by 3 betting the turn?

[stoxtrader]

I think you played it very well.

you are questioning your turn 3 bet? 4 ways with an OESD and a 4 flush to the third nuts? you are getting a nice return on every bet you put in.

River obviously and easy value bet.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
you are getting a nice return on every bet you put in.

[/ QUOTE ]

no he isn't. he only wins 28.54% of the time against those two hands, and those are on the reasonably good side of what he could be facing that can take 3 bets on the turn. it could be even worse, such as facing a set of kings and the nut flush draw with a win rate of 16.67%.

[steveyz]

I would have just called the turn raise to try to keep MP1 in it. It's pretty clear on the turn that you don't have the best hand, but you do have 15 outs to improve to the flush or straight so you'd like to get 2:1 for your money. There's no point in knocking MP1 out of the hand in my opinion.

[steveyz]

Hero here is obviously behind here on the turn, and is about 2:1 to improve on the river. If he can get 2 calls for each bet he puts in, then fine, but you don't want to knock out customers like MP1 by facing them with 2 bets.

[James282]

astro beat me to the punch, but a 3 bet on the turn is doo doo. I think most people grossly overvalue straight/flush draws on the turn. The flop is over, you are no longer 50% to make your hand by the river. You need to be up against 3 opponents or more to be getting value from the $ that goes into the pot. I understand that your trips might be outs too, but that still doesn't justify jamming the turn.
-James

[samdash]

How about 3 betting the turn to get more outs by eliminating someone? Or maybe get a better hand to fold on the turn? Unlikely I know, but if something like this happens 1 in however many times its probably good in the end. Plus advertising...You're gaining and losing very little in situations like this.

[stoxtrader]

[ QUOTE ]
no he isn't. he only wins 28.54% of the time against those two hands,

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm assuming if he hits his flush or straight it is good. aren't his 15 outs good 15:31 or about 32.6% of the time?

[steveyz]

What additional outs are you exactly going to clean up?