Weak play?

Prevaricator · #1 06-10-2004, 03:23 AM

PokerStars No-Limit Hold'em, $4 BB (9 handed)

MP2 ($$320)
MP3 ($$537.95)
Hero ($$589)
Button ($$142.05)
SB ($$671)
BB ($$512)
UTG ($$120)
UTG+1 ($$489)
MP1 ($$813.85)

Preflop: Hero is CO with Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 raises to $20, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero calls $20, Button folds, SB calls $18, BB folds.

Flop: ($64) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, Hero checks.

Turn: ($64) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players)
SB checks, UTG+1 bets $61, Hero folds, SB folds.

Final Pot: $125
Main Pot: $64, won by UTG+1.
Pot 2: $61, returned to UTG+1.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. UTG+1 wins $125. 

Comments?

Vagos · #2 06-10-2004, 03:28 AM

If it were me, I'd make it $60 preflop. The problem with just calling with QQ is you have no info. No idea where you're at. If that were the board but rainbow, you'd confidently bet I assume but what if he check-raises you with a hand like TT or JJ? I'd like to hear your thought process though. Were you looking to trap or was he a particularly tight player? All in all, I'm taking the lead preflop with QQ, no questions asked. Now if he comes back over the top, that's another story.
-Andy

Prevaricator · #3 06-10-2004, 03:45 AM

If a guy raises utg, I usually respect it. I am looking for a set with QQ basically. If an overcard flops, the hand's over. I'll generally call the flop bet if its undercards, and if he checks the turn then I'll take control. Its unlikely he would fire out twice with unimproved AK if someone smooth called preflop and flop. I also don't see him raising 5xbb with JJ or TT from EP. Its more likely AK, but it could be AA or KK. With that flop, I'm suspicious of his check, so i just check folded. If I had the Qs, I probably would have done something rash. If a guy raises in mid position, I usually reraise QQ, but if the raiser is EP, its tougher.

Bataglin · #4 06-10-2004, 06:33 AM

I think u played it fine. You have position on the field, and used it. No doubt there will be a lot better NL-situations than this. Your hand can't take much heat here.

bouh · #5 06-10-2004, 08:36 AM

with your position I am not sure it's a good idea to just call his bet on the flop. I think you have to reraise to not let him draw to his K or A. And that's a good way to know where you are at. If he reraise you you probably can lay down but if you just call and he fire again on the turn what's your move ? you still don't know if you have the best hand or not. Some agressive people fire again with AK on the turn. and with AA or KK he could check to try a check raise. In my opinion on a ragged flop with QQ in position you have to reraise.

Jester999 · #6 06-10-2004, 12:16 PM

I've got some questions and observations. I play at Stars also, but I top out at 1/2 $200 buy in level.

Here goes....

[ QUOTE ]
The problem with just calling with QQ is you have no info. No idea where you're at.

[/ QUOTE ].

While I don't necessarily disagree here, there's a play that I'll make here on occasion. If I raise with AA from EP and get reraised, I'll just smooth call. I now think I have a better understanding of where the reraiser might be and I think I've thrown him off my scent a bit. He'll start thinking AK or maybe JJ or 10 10, but he'll be less than convinced I have the pocket Aces. My point is when you seek information often you give information. Does nobody else do this? Which brings me to....

[ QUOTE ]
I also don't see him raising 5xbb with JJ or TT from EP. Its more likely AK, but it could be AA or KK.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'll find the table tolerance for the preflop raise (usually between 3x and 5x the blinds) and that's my raise. I won't change it. I will not deviate. And after I've been sitting a while and I think the better players are getting a feel for my play, I'll raise from EP with a variety of hands. JJ, 10 10, 99, AQ suited or even a middle suited connector. I won't get broke with these hands, but it allows me to mix up my play a bit. I guess my point is I think that your train of thought is dangerous and puts you in the wrong place mentally preflop.

[ QUOTE ]
I think u played it fine. You have position on the field, and used it. No doubt there will be a lot better NL-situations than this. Your hand can't take much heat here.

[/ QUOTE ]

I do agree with you this, but I have another questions. Let me preface again, that I probably would have laid this sucker down in a heartbeat, but you do have position. Does nobody lead here on the flop? I'm not saying you get broke with this hand, but why let the money in the middle rot? Furthermore, as a hypothetical does anyone come over the top on the turn if a brick hits instead of the king?

Finally, I've played with you many times on Stars, Prevaricator. Ballsy to have the same name here and there.

Golf day followed by a live game at the country club. I'll return later to check replies. Good luck all.

Prevaricator · #7 06-10-2004, 04:01 PM

I didn't lead out on the flop because I thought he had black aces or A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]. I don't want to get trapped. His flop play is very suspicious, and the players at the 2 4 table aren't normally fish.

Why is it bad to have the same name here and on PokerStars?

cornell2005 · #8 06-10-2004, 08:10 PM

looks like you didnt have a concrete plan this hand. either you have to play it for the set (if you put him on AA or KK more than 50% of the time) in which case your line was good, or play some poker, in which case the line was bad. in no case would i call the flop then decide i might be good and make a move on the flop. anyways, not sure if you even thought about making a move on the flop or not, just an observation.

do i think you should have made a move at this pot somewhere in the hand? i really would like to see his flops seen percentage and hands raised percentage. i make my decision entirely based on what type of player he is. from here, if i decide he may have something other than AA, KK enough of the time, i raise preflop to like 50 or so. then it becomes a different hand. if he calls, then its a tougher decision.

[ QUOTE ]
I didn't lead out on the flop because I thought he had black aces or A [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]K [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].

[/ QUOTE ]

id think more likely he checked because he doesnt have a spade. either he is inducing a bluff (a bluff i think is bad here as i think he will always call with red KK, ect) or is legitametly scared of the flush for some reason, or missed the flop. assuming you just called preflop id just check it down as a good player will induce a bluff here.