River play?

skp · #1 06-09-2004, 06:57 PM

Hate to post a routine looking hand what with all the nice threads happening of late, but this situation and others like it have for some reason biting me in the you know where. Your thoughts are therefore appreciated.

6 way action. Unraised pot. I am in the bb with Tc3h.

Flop: ThJhAs

Checked around

Turn: 5h

I bet and only the cut-off calls (note: The button had called preflop).

River: deuce of something

Value bet? Bluff? Checkcall in hopes of inducing a bluff? Chcekfold?

mtdurham · #2 06-09-2004, 07:17 PM

By my count there are 5 big bets in the pot. I'd put him on a busted straight draw or a pair of jacks. I think if you check he will bet regardless of what he has, half the time you can beat his bluff the other half you lose to his jack.

The question is if you bet out will he call with the jack. I don't think he'll put you on an Ace and will probably call partly out of curiousity. However, if you can move him off the pot by betting and he did have a pair of jacks it's a big win for you.

If you bet and he doesnt have your ten beat i think he's sure to fold so no value there.

I'd probably check/call if I thought he was a typical player and bet if I thought he was an ultra-tight player.

Also consider the fact that if you bet he could sense weakness since you didn't lead the "Ace or better" you are representing and raise you. You'd certainly have to lay down to a raise, so I like the check/call.

Good chance he checks down with the jack or a weak ace so that's a saved bet as well

DanZ · #3 06-09-2004, 07:45 PM

this post neglects the very likely heart flush for the opponent.

Nothing wrong with checking and hoping to win a no bet showdown, but that's not the only thing to consider.

Dan Z.

PittRounder · #4 06-09-2004, 08:43 PM

Check fold the turn. In the 6-way checked around flop, someone at least has a jack, and the hearts getting there are also a problem. Since you made it to the river, I'd check call and hope to be shown a missed straight or naked Kh if he is a bad player or check fold against anyone resembling solid. There's really nothing that you're beating, and you definatly get looked up with any flopped pair.

Kevin J · #5 06-09-2004, 08:45 PM

I don't think this hand is worth the effort on the turn.

ShipItToPapa · #6 06-10-2004, 12:56 AM

i tend to never get involved in these kinds of situations, i just check fold the turn. However, I'm probably leaving money on the table.

A value bet would be quite bold.....

A tight player may however lay down a jack with a heart.

The Ram · #7 06-10-2004, 01:06 AM

Very likely heart flush?? This sounds like nut-hunting to me. I'd say this is a really bad read and not worth considering.

Zeno · #8 06-10-2004, 01:15 AM

Jesus Christ on Roller Skates! skp - bet the flop. Find out where you stand. Or better yet, just toss your cards away before the flop. Fold in the Dark. Bring a smile to Tommy's face and a scowl to Sklansky's.

-Zeno

andyfox · #9 06-10-2004, 01:49 AM

I don't understand why others are against your turn bet. Two hearts or an ace would have likely bet the flop. There's a reasonable chance your hand is good. And if not you may have quite a few outs for all or half the pot.

I think I'd check-call the river. If he didn't bet his jack on the flop, there's a chance he'd check behind with it here, but since he may have put you on just a flush draw on the turn, he might call you down if you bet. Conversely, if you have him beat, he may put you on a flush draw just the same and take a stab at the pot now with nothing, or value bet (in his mind) with a smallish pocket pair that he might not call your bet with. And there's always the possibility (although I think it's slim here) that he was sandbagging on the turn.

skp · #10 06-10-2004, 12:09 PM

My thinking was the same.

I checked with the intention of calling. The other guy also disappointingly said "check" and then showed his hand first which was T9 with the 9 of hearts. He was drawing to the 9 high flush and given his reaction on the river, I think he would have folded his Ten had I bet.

The "checking to induce a bluff" play should have given way to betting here. Although there was a good chance that my opponent was drawing (which would indicate a river check on my part to be the better play), there were other more paramount considerations which I did not factor in. Chief among these was the possibility that my opponent had a better hand which he might fold for one more bet on the river.