This strange hand and betting. JJ folded a winner, good fold?

Leo Bello · #1 06-09-2004, 08:03 AM

Ultimate Bet No-Limit Hold'em, $.50 BB (8 handed) converter

saw flop|saw showdown

BB ($46.95)
Hero ($33.20)
UTG+1 ($12.75)
MP1 ($11.95)
MP2 ($47.90)
CO ($23)
Button ($37.65)
SB ($40.90)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
Hero calls $0.50, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button raises to $2.25, SB folds, BB raises to $4, Hero calls $3.50, Button calls $1.75.

Flop: ($12.25) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players)
BB checks, Hero checks, Button bets $12.25, BB calls $12.25, Hero folds.

 Heavy betting here. Someone hit triples? Both? Had to call to try a fullhouse with two outs?

Turn: ($36.75) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $0.5, Button calls $0.50.

 What happened here 0.50... no one hitted a hand?

River: ($37.75) 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players)
BB bets $0.50, Button goes all-in $20.90, BB calls $20.40.

 then with that river, no improvement shown Button went all in and got called... some slow play on turn?

Final Pot: $79.55
Main Pot: $79.55, between BB and Button. > Pot won by BB ($79.55).

Results in white below: 
BB shows 8s 8h (two pair, queens and eights).
Button shows Ac Th (one pair, queens).
Outcome: BB wins $79.55.

bouh · #2 06-09-2004, 08:08 AM

I would auto pot bet this flop with JJ. I think only BB will call, i doubt the button would with AT. On the turn if bb act like he did (.5 bet) I bet 12 again.

josie_wales · #3 06-09-2004, 08:12 AM

Leo,

I am not sure what others will think of this, but UTG with JJ and I am raising.

Limping lets some weak Queens in for cheap. Weak kings and aces as well, which is something you dont want.

Josie

Leo Bello · #4 06-09-2004, 08:18 AM

Just a quick note. I edited the hand cause somehow Bison´s converter didn´t read the all in on the river and ended the hand with 38 pot instead of 79 pot that happened.

I know my pre flop wasn´t nearly as good as it should be. If I had raised pre flop, then betted the flop it would have ended there.

But the way this handed was played by the other two caught my attention.

ghettorat · #5 06-09-2004, 08:41 AM

You should have won this hand on the flop. Raise PF. BB will not re-raise an UTG raise. Bet the pot on the flop. You'll win 90% of those hands right there, problem is BB will check-raise flop occasionally with nothing. Chances are if you raise PF then bet out or raise his bet you will more then likely take it down.

BlueBear · #6 06-09-2004, 09:33 AM

in my opinion, limping the JJ UTG is ok, with that strategy, you're basically you're playing to hit a set. But occasionally raise it immediately UTG to mix up your play and so that you won't become so readable.

That aside, with 3 players on the table and a BB reraise, I would proceed very cautiously here, especially here when you're out of position. if you fire off a bet on the flop immediately and get a single caller, then what? On the turn it's very hard to fire off another pot sized bet again, and if you don't, you're susceptible to be bluffed (either on turn or river). Check/fold is ok.

Well, as shown in the hand history, the two other players played pretty cluelessly and manage to get themselves committed very mediocre hands. Despite that, I feel you've made the right move and I would wait for something more solid before calling myself all-in...

OldLearner · #7 06-09-2004, 11:44 AM

Curious. Seeing a lot of advice to raise PF with JJ from UTG. This seems to contradict a lot of other advice I have read. JJ is my cut-off for not PF raising from EP/MP. I like to limp with JJ and hopefully see a cheap flop.

- If 2 overcards come on the flop, I'm done.
- 1 overcard or undercards, fire a pot-sized bet on the flop.
- Spike a J, yahoo...I limped because I want callers to pay me for my set plus if I raise and am reraised I may have to lay it down without getting that chance.

What you don't want is to raise and only be called/raised by a strong hands Let the weak Q's call and hit TP (QT on a T84 flop).

cornell2005 · #8 06-09-2004, 02:13 PM

[ QUOTE ]
You should have won this hand on the flop. Raise PF. BB will not re-raise an UTG raise. Bet the pot on the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]

i think if you want to win the pot on the flop the best way to do it is to check raise a decently large amount. if he bets 12, come back with 30 or so. its very +EV, because i think he doesnt hve the Q 80% of the time or more, and he folds to your raise 75% of the time at least. thats 25 dollars won 75% of the time, 30 lost 25% of the time. my percentages might even be a bit conservative, though the chances of the checker having the Q is probably larger than the bettor. works better in heads up, but not a bad play here either.

all your options arnt bad here, depending if your player is aggressive, a calling station, or just dumb

AnyutaDva · #9 06-09-2004, 03:02 PM

The more I look at this hand the more I think the BB may have had some sort of clue what he was doing. If he has got a handle on the button and knows that he raises with a lot of weak hands on the button, then the reraise to isolate him isn't the worst play in the world. I would have reraised more than the minimum because I'd want to make it incorrect for people to call with small pairs, but I don't think the reraise is a horrible play per se.

Once the flop has come down the BB is probably going to fancy his pair of eights against any random cards that the button is holding, you are obviously more of a problem because you can be holding AQ, KQ, or a bigger pair than eights. So he checks, the buttons makes his bluff, the BB reads it as such and calls. Once you fold and no overcard comes the BB must like his hand and feel his best chance of getting on is the button bluffing, which he eventually does.

The only thing that doesn't make sense to me is the minimum bet on the turn? [img]/images/graemlins/confused.gif[/img]