Hand #2, QQ preflop with reraise and call to me...

JrJordan · #1 06-08-2004, 10:35 PM

Been at the table for about half an hour, table is pretty darn loose/passive, especially CO in this hand. Don't have a real read on the UTG, so we'll assume typical PPer.

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 TEHero***** (6 handed)

Party Poker Pot-Limit Hold'em, $0.50 BB (10 handed)

UTG ($11.85)
Hero ($22.50)
UTG+2 ($25)
MP1 ($27.85)
MP2 ($44.90)
MP3 ($20.75)
CO ($108.20)
Button ($102.05)
SB ($19.65)
BB ($16.55)

Preflop: Hero is UTG+1 with Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls $0.50, Hero raises to $2.25, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls $2.25, CO raises to $10.25, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG raises to $11.85 (All-In), Hero folds...

 Here's my thinking for that hand. CO has played loose enough that I think my QQ could be good against him. If UTG folded then me calling would easily be +EV. With UTG's call though, I'm not sure what my reasoning should be. The pot just got twice as big, but UTG's push makes me think he could be my QQ. My two main options are to fold, or push all in and hope I can win the side pot with CO if he calls, assuming UTG has me beat. Comments? 

Any help as usual appreciated. I'll post UTG and CO hands later tonight.

NotAClue · #2 06-09-2004, 01:09 AM

UTG didn't just call/push, he limp re-raised so I think you're almost certainly behind against him (unless your read on him says different). The question is whether CO given the limp-reraise by UTG and either your flat call or re-raise pre-flop would put anymore money in the pot if he was trying to buy the pot with 88 or TT or some garbage like that.

Given that you're likely to lose $11.85 to UTG's AA or KK (once again this depends on your read of UTG), you'd have to squeeze out at least $11.85 from CO in the side pot. If you think you can check-raise CO on the flop (which more than likely he'll bet if as you say he's a loose player), you might be able to accomplish this.

Prevaricator · #3 06-09-2004, 01:17 AM

That's very likely a good fold.

Tilted Litt · #4 06-09-2004, 01:22 AM

Still rather new at this, but gonna give it a shot.

Assuming you call, you're essentially risking your entire stack ($22.50) to win about the same amount. Assuming your read on CO is correct and you call, I would probably raise All-In, he'll call so you're risking 20 dollars to win 30. If you have CO beat, you need to put a read on UTG, the hands you have to figure him for are QQ,KK,AA,AK,or AQ. Since I make it a point in Party $25 NL never to put people on AA or KK unless I have a good read, He's got QQ,AK,or AQ, giving you a coin flip or better. I would probably call, unless you could definitely put UTG on KK or AA. Could very well be wrong, but that's my $.02

JrJordan · #5 06-09-2004, 01:22 AM

For the most part, CO is loose passive, so if a scary flop comes for him, I don't think he'll bet it. I forgot about UTG's limp before all of the action. That certainly makes it more plausible that he's on a big hand. The more I think about it, the more I think it was a good lay down. I doubt I could squeeze another 11 bucks out of CO unless he was truly beating me. That, combined with the likelyhood that UTG has me beat makes me think it's the right move.

JrJordan · #6 06-09-2004, 01:29 AM

At this point I don't have a read on UTG. However, NotaClue made a very good point that UTG did in fact limp-reraise. This is much more powerful than if he were to raise initially. I don't think the average PPer would limp reraise all in with AQ, it is possible with AK though though doubtful. On the other hand, he is significantly short stacked and could simply be pissing the chips away. Using this info, combined with my assumption that I am beating CO, here's how the pot breaks down.

I'd lose the 11 or so to UTG, and win whatever I can get in a side pot with CO. CO seems to be very loose preflop, but relatively passive if he doesn't hit the board. So if he is playing a lower pocket pair or something like Ax, then the only way I'll get more money in the pot is when he is beating me. In the long run I think this is a -EV situation, so it went into the muck. Comments?

Tilted Litt · #7 06-09-2004, 01:56 AM

The Limp-Reraise did cross my mind, but since he is short stacked, and the reraise was less of a raise and more of a call, so I personally did not give it the respect of a limp-reraise.

I guess I was trying to find reasons to stay in the pot. Personally, I probably would've pushed pre-flop w/ the QQ, but then again, I'm just learning.

JrJordan · #8 06-09-2004, 02:00 AM

Although shortstacked, I still think an $11 stack should be given some respect for the limp reraise. If he had a $5 or $6 stack, then an all in desperation bet would be more likely.

JrJordan · #9 06-09-2004, 12:04 PM

CO shows A10o, UTG shows the ever more powerful A6o. UTG takes it down when a 6 comes on the turn. Even though they played god awful hands, I still think in the long run my fold is +EV. Gotta love Party Poker players, still finished the session up 150 BB with a mix of 25 and 50 NL. Best session so far.

tpir90036 · #10 06-09-2004, 01:06 PM

[ QUOTE ]
I still think in the long run my fold is +EV.

[/ QUOTE ]
against "normal" opponents when this same situation unfolds? probably.

against these opponents? ummm, no. the CO re-raised you with a hand that most people would not even want to play in the SB in an un-raised pot.

i hope you took some good notes after this one. i think there are definitely more of these opponents than "normal" ones on party.