Trying new things - a play with AA.

[Goodie]

I've been playing mostly low limit hold em, with some ventures into bigger games and bigger tourneys for about 4 1/2 years. I've been a winner and lately I've been trying to expand my game some and play hands in a different way that what was the norm for me. Here's a hand I played at the 4-8 at foxwoods on Sunday.

AA utg. I raise, called by fairly solid player for this game (which means fairly large fish for anything higher), then called by two super-fish (even for 4-8), BB calls (non-factor).
Flop:

J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 3 [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

BB check, I bet, fairly solid raises, two super fish cold call and BB folds. I call.
Turn:

3 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]

I check, solid bets, both fishes call, I raise, solid folds, fishes call.
River:

3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

I bet, one fish calls and my hand is good.

My main concern is the non-three bet on the flop and waiting for the turn to check-raise. I know a year ago I would have three bet the flop and lead the turn.

I thought this was a better line of play. What's everyone else think?

Thanks

Peace

Goodie

[BradleyT]

I like it.

When solid shows strength on the flop and the fishes call you know you have them hooked. If you re-raise here and he caps you may lose the fishies.

On the turn you can be certain solid guy is going to bet and the fishies will call so you get more bets in. Now when you raise here it's most likely going to get someone out of the pot - and I think it got the person you wanted out. If he had stayed and re-raised I think you can say goodbye to the fishies.

Bet on end is mandatory as is calling any raise they might throw in. Can't throw away your big hand for 1 bet now.

[pudley4]

Nicely done.

This worked because the solid player was acting immediately after you and because the J was part of the flush draw on board.

The solid player's raise is most likely a weak made hand that he's trying to protect. So it's unlikely he'll check behind on the turn (he's probably not raising the flop for a free turn card).

If the J was not part of the flush draw, it's conceivable the solid player had a suited J (AJs, JTs), giving him both top pair and the flush draw - he may check this hand behind on the turn.

If the solid player acted after the fish had called, it's much more likely he is on the flush draw - his raise won't knock anyone out, and he may get the free turn.

Finally, if you 3bet the flop and lead the turn, it's highly likely the solid would have folded to your turn bet here (since he folded to the turn checkraise it appears he put you on at least a big pair if not JJ) so you made the max playing it this way.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

Nice play. Heads up or even 3-way I do this a lot. 4 way it's a little riskier, but with this flop, you don't always want to pump up the odds of someone else's flush draw.

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
but with this flop, you don't always want to pump up the odds of someone else's flush draw.


[/ QUOTE ]

This is wrong. Unless you are behind, you are making money on every bet that goes in, even if one of your opponents has a flush draw.

Here are some results from twodimes (The poster didn't say whether he had the A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] or not)

Without A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=353132
pokenum -h ad ac - kh qh - jc td - 5d 3c -- jh 3s 2h
Holdem Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 3s Jh 2h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Ad 305 37.20 515 62.80 0 0.00 0.372
Kh Qh 322 39.27 498 60.73 0 0.00 0.393
Jc Td 106 12.93 714 87.07 0 0.00 0.129
3c 5d 87 10.61 733 89.39 0 0.00 0.106
</pre><hr />

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>http://twodimes.net/h/?z=353133
pokenum -h ad ac - kh qh - jc td - 5d 5c -- jh 3s 2h
Holdem Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 3s Jh 2h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Ad 352 42.93 468 57.07 0 0.00 0.429
Kh Qh 319 38.90 501 61.10 0 0.00 0.389
Jc Td 100 12.20 720 87.80 0 0.00 0.122
5c 5d 49 5.98 771 94.02 0 0.00 0.060
</pre><hr />

With A [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=353141
pokenum -h ah ac - kh qh - jc td - 5d 5c -- jh 3s 2h
Holdem Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 3s Jh 2h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Ah 397 48.41 423 51.59 0 0.00 0.484
Kh Qh 271 33.05 549 66.95 0 0.00 0.330
Jc Td 100 12.20 720 87.80 0 0.00 0.122
5c 5d 52 6.34 768 93.66 0 0.00 0.063
</pre><hr />

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>
http://twodimes.net/h/?z=353144
pokenum -h ah ac - kh qh - jc td - 5d 3c -- jh 3s 2h
Holdem Hi: 820 enumerated boards containing 3s Jh 2h
cards win %win lose %lose tie %tie EV
Ac Ah 351 42.80 469 57.20 0 0.00 0.428
Kh Qh 273 33.29 547 66.71 0 0.00 0.333
Jc Td 106 12.93 714 87.07 0 0.00 0.129
3c 5d 90 10.98 730 89.02 0 0.00 0.110
</pre><hr />

I gave the opponents reasonable hands (flush draw, top pair, middle pair/pocket pair), left all the [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] in the deck, and AA is still winning way more than it's fair share (25%)

[Sundevils21]

because of the money that is already out there and the money from the players who pretty much can't win, both AA and the flush draw can be correct in their plays.

[Fnord]

[ QUOTE ]
Nice play. Heads up or even 3-way I do this a lot. 4 way it's a little riskier, but with this flop, you don't always want to pump up the odds of someone else's flush draw.

[/ QUOTE ]

Best made hand and best draw usually have the best of it in a Multi-pot. If you think your AA is the best made hand, then raising it up is extracting value from others that don't have either. It's quite possible, even likely, that both you and the flush draw are gaining by trapping the weaker hands for more bets.

[BreakEvenPlayer]

Thanks for the correction... I guess what I meant is that you are making the flush draw's call even more correct by building this pot.

[ddubois]

[ QUOTE ]
Thanks for the correction... I guess what I meant is that you are making the flush draw's call even more correct by building this pot.

[/ QUOTE ]
I don't really care if their call becomes "more correct". I get 2/3rds of every bet that goes in, they get 1/3rd. Sounds like a great deal to me.