trouble with Jacks

dfscott · #1 05-30-2004, 02:53 AM

I just had a horrible session tonight and most of the trouble was with jacks, both JJ and AJo. Some of the hands I just played poorly because I was tilting a bit (I was up 30BB at one point was down 40BB at one point before I ended the session down 25BB).

I've posted a few hands below for review -- comments are appreciated:

Hand 1
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]. MP2 posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 (poster) checks, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (12.40 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players) 
BB bets, UTG folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 folds, Hero calls, Button calls.

Turn: (7.70 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players) 
BB bets, Hero raises, Button folds, BB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (13.70 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) 
BB bets, Hero raises, BB 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls.

Final Pot: 21.70 BB
Main Pot: 21.70 BB, between Hero and BB. > Pot won by BB (21.70 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows Js Kd (full house, kings full of jacks).
Hero shows Jc Jh (full house, jacks full of kings).
Outcome: BB wins 21.70 BB. 

Should I have capped the turn? And should I have slowed down on the river?

Hand 2
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (7 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button folds, Hero raises, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Flop: (6 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (4.50 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 calls.

River: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero bets, BB calls, MP1 raises, Hero calls, BB calls.

Final Pot: 13.50 BB
Main Pot: 13.50 BB, between Hero, BB and MP1. > Pot won by MP1 (13.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
BB shows 5s Kh (two pair, kings and twos).
MP1 shows Qc Kd (two pair, kings and twos).
Hero shows Jd Js (two pair, jacks and twos).
Outcome: MP1 wins 13.50 BB. 

Could I have played this better? Nothing jumps out at me.

Hand 3
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls, UTG calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players) 
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG folds, MP2 folds, CO folds, Button raises, SB calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players) 
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB calls, Hero calls.

River: (12 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players) 
SB checks, Hero checks, Button bets, SB folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14 BB
Main Pot: 14 BB, between Button and Hero. > Pot won by Button (14 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Jd Js (three of a kind, jacks).
Button shows Ac Ad (three of a kind, aces).
Outcome: Button wins 14 BB. 

Should I have re-raised pre-flop? What about re-reraising the flop?

And now, some AJo hands:

Hand 4
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, Hero calls, Button calls, SB completes, BB checks.

Flop: (5 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, MP1 checks, Hero bets, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, MP1 folds.

Turn: (3.50 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players) 
SB bets, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, Hero calls.

River: (9.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) 
SB bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 11.50 BB
Main Pot: 11.50 BB, between SB and Hero. > Pot won by SB (11.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Js Ac (three of a kind, aces).
SB shows 5d As (full house, aces full of fives).
Outcome: SB wins 11.50 BB. 

Sould I be raising this pre-flop in LP? I thought I was in trouble when the SB 3-bet me on the turn, so that's why I slowed down.

Hand 5
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. UTG+1 posts a blind of $0.05.
UTG calls, UTG+1 (poster) checks, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (6 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (6 players) 
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 raises, CO folds, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (7 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (4 players) 
Hero bets, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP2 raises, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (13 BB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero checks, UTG+1 checks, MP2 bets, Hero calls, UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 16 BB
Main Pot: 16 BB, between UTG+1, MP2 and Hero. > Pot won by MP2 (16 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows As Jc (one pair, jacks).
UTG+1 shows Jh Qs (one pair, jacks).
MP2 shows Ks Kh (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP2 wins 16 BB. 

Should I have capped the flop? And should I have gone into check/call mode when I was raised?

B Dids · #2 05-30-2004, 03:02 AM

First I'll say that I think these type of posts are easier to deal with if the hands are broken up into individual posts- just my suggestion.

Hand 1- think you played fine. I'd be tempted to fold the flop, but I think the call is decent. Beyond it's just bad luck.

Hand 2- Hand two is fine too.

Hand 3- I'd 3-bet preflop, 3 bet the flop. I'd also lose a lot more money than you did.

Hand 4- That's a must raise in the CO preflop

Hand 5- I'd be tempted to raise preflop, but think the complete is fine. I'd play it the same way you did. If somebody wants to limp with Kings, just make a note and move on.

dfscott · #3 05-30-2004, 03:10 AM

[ QUOTE ]
First I'll say that I think these type of posts are easier to deal with if the hands are broken up into individual posts- just my suggestion.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, I agree. I just read one with 10 hands that was really difficult. I'll try to do that in the future.

And thanks for the feedback on the hands -- I was nearly on tilt tonight due to all the 2nd best hands so it's nice to hear that it was just a bad run of luck and not poor play on my part.

Piiop · #4 05-30-2004, 03:13 AM

I agree with BDids on all the hands. A few of these are just bad luck and you can't let that get to you. You played well even though you lost.

Hand 4 I would cap the turn.

Hand 5 Did you consider checkraising the flop?

HajiShirazu · #5 05-30-2004, 03:32 AM

Cap the turn in hand 1. Just call the 3-bet on the river. Unfortunate. I always lose a lot of hands like these when I am losing.
You can almost fold to the raise in hand 2. I think the river bet is right, but I think you have to fold to the raise if you are going to make it. It is a large pot, but you'd have to be up against a noted bluffer to call, and it's a protected pot.
In hand 3, 3-bet preflop. If he caps preflop, I probably would have 3-bet the flop and called down if he capped.
Cap the turn in hand 4 and call a bet on the river, betting if checked to. The only likely hands beating you on the turn are 44/KK (very unlikely) AK/AQ (unlikely since no raise) and A4 (possible). If he bets the river after your cap, just call.
I make it 3 bets on the flop in hand 5. You usually will have the best hand here. If capped you can slow down. But make the overcard chasers pay.

phishfan · #6 05-30-2004, 03:37 AM

Here's a hand of yours I found in PT:
PokerStars 0.05/0.10 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is UTG with 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]. MP3 (dfscott) posts a blind of $0.05.
Hero folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 (dfscott) (poster) raises, CO calls, Button calls, SB calls, BB calls, UTG+1 calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players) 
SB checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, dfscott bets, CO calls, Button folds, SB calls, BB folds, UTG+1 calls.

Turn: (8 BB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players) 
SB checks, UTG+1 checks, dfscott bets, CO calls, SB folds, dfscott bets, CO calls.

River: (12 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players) 

Final Pot: 12 BB

Results in white below: 
UTG+1 shows 7s Ah (one pair, sevens).
dfscott shows Js Jd (one pair, jacks).
CO shows Ad 6s (one pair, sixes).
Outcome: dfscott wins 12 BB. 

And I show you as making 37.75 bb/100 hands(only 40 hands, but what the hey), so just think of them as loans instead of
losses.

dfscott · #7 05-30-2004, 09:25 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Here's a hand of yours I found in PT:

[/ QUOTE ]

Wow! I dug through my hands and couldn't find that one, but I did lose a lot of hand history before I realized that PS only saved your last 200 hands.

That play is so fishy that it's just flat out embarassing -- I hope that was earlier in my poker career. Otherwise, I'll plead: "tilt". [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Edit: Umm... upon review, the results don't seem to have anything to do with that hand -- did something get mixed up?

Tosh · #8 05-30-2004, 10:19 AM

Hand 1 I think you can fold the flop safely.

Hand 2 you can safely lay it down on the river. Not only has he raised you he's raised a caller, the pot is protected.

Hand 3, 3 bet preflop and raise at least once more in the hand. Check raising the turn looks good.

Hand 4, raise preflop - nasty beat don't worry.

Hand 5, check raising the turn is better than betting out.

phishfan · #9 05-30-2004, 11:10 AM

You're the one with the jacks. The 85s was the hand I folded. That was the first time I use the hand converter and I think I screwed it up. You started with jacks and ended up winning a 12bb pot. You weren't the fish. I just wanted to lift your spirits a little. We tend to forget all those hands where your opponent misses his 2,3, or 5 outs and you take down a nice pot as you did in this case.

dfscott · #10 05-30-2004, 11:20 AM

Doh! Now I see -- I was just expecting to see it from my point of view. I thought I was doing all that better with 85s [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

Thanks for the lift!