What would you do with AK in this tournament situation?

[trumpman84]

In the early to mid stages of a tournament, you have built a pretty nice stack of 4500 which is above the average of 2500. Blinds are 100/200. Guy to your right who is a solid player, has a 5500 stack raises one bet to 400. With AKo, you reraise to 800. Button folds, small blind folds, big blind calls, and raiser calls.

There is 2500 in the pot at this point with 3 people playing. Flop is A, Q, 2 rainbow. Big blind checks and the initial preflop raiser comes out and bets 500, and small bet for this size a pot. You make it 1500 with top pair/top kicker. Big blind folds and the initial raiser comes over the top of you all-in. At this point you still have 2200 left (a little below the average) and the call will put you all-in.

Do you call at this point with AKo(top pair, top kicker)?

[schroedy]

These polls are tough because I would really have to have a line on the player. I have called more than a few times to prove the AQ (QQ even worse, both Aces miraculous, A2 or 22 highly unlikely). Probably too much. All I can hope is a chop by calling.

I might also avoid this and just dribble away some (possibly the same number of?) chips, but get to see the turn (and maybe the end) by calling not raising after the flop.

[trumpman84]

Ok..now that I got a pretty good idea of what people would do...would you of played this hand differently pre flop or on the flop? Are there circumstances where you would call this bet (maniac betting, someone who goes all in a lot while betting)....would you call if you had the guy covered in chips by less than 1000? Would you call if you had the guy covered in chips by more than 1000 (but still had to call the all-in bet of 2000 or more)?

The guy held AQ by the way. The way I was thinking...

He raised a weak raise but didnt reraise after I reraised preflop. That had me thinking AK, AQ, AJ, AT, possibly KQ suited, or AA, lesser probability of KK, QQ or JJ b/c I think that would get reraised or T's or lower pair.

Now his 500 bet on the flop had me thinking he hit at least part of the flop,...did he have A, lower kicker...did he have second pair? did he have a lower pair but not a set? I had to raise to find out more info about his hand...If you dont raise here, you might be stuck calling him down to the river because you don't know how strong his holding is. After the size of my raise, and his reraise all in, I had to rule out a bluff...and I don't think he'd just come over the top all in with K's or J's or second pair with an ace showing and a big reraise. So, I had to assume I was beat with AQ, QQ or even AA(or he had AK also, but why risk all your chips for a chance at splitting?)

[cnfuzzd]

im not much of a tournament, or nl, player, but the small bet into the pf raiser by a solid player screams that he or she wants you to come over the top, i would probably just call, or, if thinking clearly, fold. If i thought i had a small draw to beat two pair i would lean towards calling.

peace

john nickle

[DVDerek]

I probably would have re-raised just as you did Pre-Flop. But I hope that I would lay down AK to an all-in re-raise from a solid player.

You gotta be wary of the small bet post flop from someone who's a solid player. The question is, what do you think his read on you is? If you think he reads you as an average player then I'd think he was trying to trap you. If he thinks you're a good player as well maybe he's trying to get you to think he's betting AA meekly. In a tournament, I don't think it's worth the risk of paying him off to figure out which it is.

All this said if your read is that he's betting a big hand meekly you've gotta lay down to the small bet. You've given him credit for either AA, QQ, or AQ. If he has AQ, you might catch a K and beat him, but other than that you're not looking good. This is one of those fold or raise situations. You chose raise. He popped you back all-in. At that point you gotta give him credit for thos hands and fold.

[schroedy]

Why is this situation raise or fold? If I raise and I am beat with one of the big hands -- BANG! -- I am reraised. If I raise and he senses weakness -- same BANG! -- I am reraised. If I am willing to invest 700 (I think that was the raise) more in the hand, but no more, a call gives me a chance to see another card, maybe two. Of course, if I do make 2 pair, I am put to another hard decision. If at some point on the turn or later, SP goes all-in, I am probably out, reasoning that he can likely beat top pair/top kicker.

So I say the decision is fold or call unless you know the player to be absolutely incapable (or close) of bluffing. I am not going to sweat him catching with AJ or AT (even if he doesn't say 'solid player' to eliminate the possibility of these hands) and still less am I going to worry about some pocket pair 2 outer catching me. So what exactly does the raise gain? Yes I 'defined' the hand, but I also set myself up to be semi-bluffed off the hand when solid player has some difficult and ambiguous holding like a pocket pair (not a set).

Is 'solid player' supposed to mean 'incapable of bluffing'? Then I might see raise or fold.

In any event, SP can also have AK.

In the end, I am going to have to read SP's hand. I am not sure that "raise or fold", especially as it becomes a more widespread tactic, helps me define the hand. But again, SO MUCH of this depends on the particular player involved, and even on the internet you almost always have much better reads than "solid player."

[DVDerek]

Is he really bluffing with a $700 bet at a pot that big? If he is, he isn't a solid player... unless he's REALLY playing mind games with you and I'm not going to give him that much credit.

The bet says he has 2 pair or better to me. If you think he's bluffing you've gotta raise at some point to figure that out, no? If you call and he bets out $1000 on the turn, then what?

[schroedy]

OK -- went back and read the original question. His flop bet was $500, the raise was $1000 (to $1500).

My vote was fold by the way. With the all in raise, the guy rates to have (in order of likelihood): AQ (way the most likely); QQ or AK; some other pocket pair; or AA. It's hard to know because I don't know whether this player's minimum raise is usual or unusual (slowplay). With just a bet, I would guess many hands that I might beat, and a few that I will have a hard time catching up with, and some that leave me dead (or nearly so).

If I am willing to invest another $1,000 (but no more) in the hand, I am going to call and see what happens on the turn. If he bets $1,000 at me, I guess I call.

Now he has raised and been re-raised preflop, bet an Ace flop and been called, bet the turn and been called. If he bets the river, unless I have tremendous respect for him, I give up. (This assumes I don't improve.) At that point I give him credit for a very good hand (at least one that can beat TPTK) since I am acting like a calling station.

I put the same amount of money out there, got basically all the same information, and got to see two more cards.

To me raise or fold applies where you think the guy will fold some hands that are currently better than you, or some hands that are getting correct odds to chase -- but I don't see him holding and folding any of those hands here.

[schwza]

I would have 1) reraised bigger on the flop. TPFAP recommends pushing w AK if your stack is 2-5 times the pot. You have 4500 w 700 in the pot, so your stacks about 6.5 times the pot. Pushing from UTG+1 does make me a little queasy though, so I think I'd make it about 1100 to go.

2) On the flop, you have 3800, it's 500 to you, and there's 2500 in the pot. A pot-sized raise would be to make it 3500, so I say just push. I think it's bad to second guess yourself because of the mini-bet in front of you. You don't want second pair or gutshots sticking around to catch - just get your chips in the pot. There's a lot of money in there and you'd be very happy to take it without giving anyone a chance to outdraw you. Your hand is too big and stack is too small to get away if you're beat.

[DcifrThs]

I just read your post and took the quiz and was ASTONISHED that 45% said you should call.

the 500 bet looks, smells, and is , in fact, a trap.

this is the most commonly misplayed scenario there is. he made a bet to get you to raise since he thought you'd have to raise your ace if you had one. the bet was small enough to get to you to call with kings or raise and commit yourself with your hand. when he comes over the top he expects the callas you've now put a lot of money in the pot.

i voted no and was BARELY in the majority. if that many people are calling here its no reason tournaments are doing so well. this is a clear cut fold without a speacial read.

-Barron