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View Poll Results: What do YOU do while playing poker online?????
Nothing, "Just Poker, Baby" I've got to concentrate on the game 3 8.57%
Music/Radio "Gotta have my tunes/talk show or else I just don't play right" 11 31.43%
Alcohol "Those first few rum + coke/lagers get me in the zone" 3 8.57%
Mary Jane "gotta get my herb on to face the poker nation" 4 11.43%
Pets/Family "I gotta have the dog/kid at my side, he loosens me up when he pukes on the carpet" 3 8.57%
check out porn "call me a pervert, call me what you like, I simply don't give a damn" 2 5.71%
Several of the above 9 25.71%
All of the above 0 0%
Voters: 35. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:01 PM
Sarge85 Sarge85 is offline
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Default Online Legality In WA State

Source:http://www.wsgc.wa.gov/faq/InternetGamblingFAQ.htm

Internet/Online Gambling Questions
(click the question to see the answer)

Have you been online and noticed advertisements for online gambling? Have you received direct mail advertising from online casinos? Is any of this legal? Below, we have attempted to answer some frequently asked questions regarding Internet gambling.

Is online gambling legal in Washington State?
No. State law prohibits the transmission or receipt of any wager or gambling information intended to be used for bookmaking or other unauthorized gambling activity. It is also illegal under federal law, including the Federal Wire Wager Act (18 U.S.C. § 1084 (1994), to operate a betting or wagering business using telephone lines or other“wire communication facility.” Federal prosecutors have successfully prosecuted United States citizens with businesses based offshore under the Wire Wager Act. Mary Jo White, the United States Attorney for the Southern District of New York, has stated publicly that offshore sports betting operators who use the telephones, Internet, or other forms of wire communications to solicit bettors from the United States are acting in violation of federal law, and that her office will continue to monitor and vigorously prosecute offshore sports betting operations that engage in “blatantly illegal activity.”

Although online or Internet gambling is legal in other countries, for example, the Dominion Republic, Australia, New Zealand, Sweden, Germany, South Africa, Antigua, etc., it is illegal for operators in such countries to accept wagers from people in the United States.

If online gambling is illegal in the United States and Washington State, then why do I see them all over the Internet?
It is not illegal to operate an online or Internet gambling website in countries which permit it and when the people placing those bets are in those countries; it is illegal, however, to solicit bettors from the United States, under the federal Wire Wager Act. Also, people in Washington State who place bets on the Internet can be charged with Professional Gambling in the Third Degree, which is a gross misdemeanor.

Has anyone ever been prosecuted for online gambling?

Yes. Jay Cohen was convicted in February 2000 for violating the Wire Wager Act in connection with his operation of World Sports Exchange (WSE). Mr. Cohen was sentenced to 21 months in prison and fined $5,000. WSE is a website that operates out of Antigua and that solicited people residing in the United States, to place bets through use of toll-free 800 numbers and WSE’s website. Cohen also placed ads in various United States newspapers and magazines. WSE invited customers from throughout the United States to contact WSE to open a sports betting account; to wire transfer money to WSE to fund that account; and then to bet on sporting events and contests using that account. Also, in March 1998, 21 defendants were charged with violating the Wire Wager Act for their involvement in operating offshore sports books that accepted wagers from people in the United States via the Internet and telephones. Ten of those defendants pled guilty to conspiring to violate the Wire Wager Act and three pled guilty to related misdemeanor charges.

Can I gamble at online casinos?
No, not in Washington State. It is a gross misdemeanor to knowingly transmit or receive wagers, betting odds and any other gambling information intended to be used in any kind of unauthorized gambling activity, such as bookmaking. It is illegal under RCW 9.46.240, to transmit gambling information by telephone, telegraph, radio, semaphore or any other similar means; it is also illegal to knowingly install or maintain equipment for the transmission or receipt of gambling information.

What will happen to me if I am caught wagering online in Washington State?
You could be charged with violating the law prohibiting the knowing transmission or receipt of gambling information. You could also be charged with Professional Gambling in the First, Second or Third Degree, depending upon the amount of money and the number of people involved. Criminal penalties range from imprisonment of one to ten years, and a fine of between $5,000 to $20,000.

If I have problems with an online casino or sportsbook who can I report them to?
The Internet Fraud Complaint Center (IFCC), a partnership between the FBI and the National White Collar Crime Center (NW3C), operates a website and accepts complaints regarding Internet fraud. IFCC's stated mission is to address fraud committed over the Internet. The URL link to their website is as follows: https:// www.ifccfbi.gov/sitemap.asp. You can also contact the regulatory and/or law enforcement agency responsible for overseeing online or Internet gambling in the country where the website operates its site from.

I have just won a lot of money wagering online, but the company won’t pay me my winnings – what recourse do I have?
Once you choose to engage in illegal activities, there is very little, if any recourse available.< Although you may file a complaint with the Internet Fraud Complaint Center, or may contact the regulatory and/or law enforcement agency overseeing online or Internet gambling in the country where the website operates from, it is unlikely that you will able to obtain your winning wagers from an operator who has been shut down by government officials. For example, recently, in connection with the prosecution of Jay Cohen and World Sports Exchange, a 25-year-old insurance claims evaluator from California, was unable to collect approximately $5,000 in winning wagers from Jay Cohen’s Internet gambling website. His “cyberbookie” refused to pay him, saying it could not meet its obligations because the FBI had raided the U.S. offices of its parent company and frozen its bank accounts. The unfortunate gambler stated that he didn’t feel like he was doing anything wrong, and that he didn’t understand that it was illegal to bet over the Internet because he had heard so many radio ads about offshore betting.
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  #2  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:18 PM
cardcounter0 cardcounter0 is offline
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Default Re: Online Legality In WA State

No, it has no effect on me. I don't place any SPORTS wagers over the internet.

Every example, every fact, every answer is directed towards sports betting.

In fact every mention of GAMBLING is modified with the phrase ", such as bookmaking"

The moral of the story? Don't make book over the internet. It is against the Federal Wire Act. Don't place SPORTS BETS over the internet. It is illegal in WA State.

Just for clarification: How many poker card rooms are there in WA State? How many mini-casinos offering Blackjack?
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  #3  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:20 PM
Patrick del Poker Grande Patrick del Poker Grande is offline
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Default Re: Online Legality In WA State

It seems to me that if you were to set up an offshore account (Neteller) where it is legal to engage in (online) gambling, transfer money between that account and another offshore business (PartyPoker.com), and speculating on the outcome of their services (online poker) you are simply managing business/money interests that are completely legal in the places that the transactions are taking place. You may physically be in the United States, but the actions in question are offshore.

What does the federal or state government do to companies who set up operations offshore in order to exploit conditions that are illegal in the US or their state (sweatshops, lower min wages, tax circumstances)? It's about time for the government to let us run our own personal lives, especially when they're going to give corporations a separate set of rules.

Finally, what is the situation for Chris Moneymaker? He's the most highly-publicized online player ever. Is online gaming legal in TN (he is from TN, right?)?
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  #4  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:27 PM
nolanfan34 nolanfan34 is offline
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Location: Oly, WA
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Default Re: Online Legality In WA State

[ QUOTE ]

Just for clarification: How many poker card rooms are there in WA State? How many mini-casinos offering Blackjack?

[/ QUOTE ]

There are more poker rooms and casinos in Washington than you can shake a stick at. Seriously, between the tribal casinos, and local card rooms, there are dozens of places to play. This state is very gambling friendly generally. In fact, there's an initiative that will likely be on the ballot in November that would allow non-tribal casinos to operate "electronic scratch ticket" machines - i.e. slot machines. Right now only the tribes can operate the Vegas-style slots.

What's also interesting in Washington is that the Legislature just passed a bill this year to allow for off-track horse betting at local tracks, which was proposed to "help" some of the local tracks stay open. The interesting argument from the proponents in the Legislature was that "people are gambling illegally online anyway, so we should allow our local tracks to take off-track bets so they can compete".

Frankly, Washington law is like the federal government I think - just doesn't quite know how to categorize poker. I was under the impression that online poker was legal in Washington, but I will be doing some double-checking now.
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  #5  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:29 PM
elwoodblues elwoodblues is offline
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Default Re: Online Legality In WA State

The bigger question is, even if illegal, is it enforceable? Personally, I don't think that it is illegal under federal law, but probably is under most (if not all) state laws. The states just aren't going to take the time and effort to try to enforce it for me to lose any sleep over it.
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  #6  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:38 PM
sin808 sin808 is offline
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Location: Everson, WA
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Default Re: Online Legality In WA State

[ QUOTE ]
Just for clarification: How many poker card rooms are there in WA State? How many mini-casinos offering Blackjack?

[/ QUOTE ]

Tons..there's more tribal casino's here than you can shake a stick at...not too mention all the card rooms (which are not required to be tribal operated).
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  #7  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:39 PM
Patrick del Poker Grande Patrick del Poker Grande is offline
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Default Re: Online Legality In WA State

[ QUOTE ]
The bigger question is, even if illegal, is it enforceable?

[/ QUOTE ]
Also, how could they legally come about knowledge of your online gambling? The states aren't going to go up to Canada and demand that Canada release records to the US. Even if they did, Canada would tell them to suck it - they won't even return those guys who refused to serve in the Iraqi war. They can't just tap into your computer unless you're legitimately suspected of terrorism - and that'd be the federal gov't, not the state. All there is coming back into the US is cash from Neteller. Is Neteller widely used for anything other than online gambling sites? I think PayPal pretty much has the market cornered on most 'legit' online transactions, so you could probably reasonably assume anything dealing with Neteller is for online gaming.
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  #8  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:41 PM
sin808 sin808 is offline
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Location: Everson, WA
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Default Re: Online Legality In WA State

how funny, first part of your reply is almost word for word what I just posted...and I didn't even read yours before posting.
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  #9  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:44 PM
cardcounter0 cardcounter0 is offline
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Default Re: Online Legality In WA State

That was my point. Sports betting is illegal under Federal Wire Act laws.

WA State has made Sports Betting and "other unauthorized gambling activity" illegal over the internet.

I think Poker is very much "authorized" by the State, and is therefore legal. Now trying to bet on cockfights over the internet is probably illegal, since that is probably an unauthorized gambling activity.

I got a kick out of this one: "it is illegal for operators in such countries to accept wagers from people in the United States." Hello? Says who? If it is legal in their country --- THEN IT IS LEGAL.

I mean, if oh, let's say, The Republic of Belize made it illegal for people in the United States to drink milk -- Would the stores immediately clear their shelves? Would bankrupt Americian Dairy Farmers have to petition the World Courts for compensation? Hell, no. Another country can't tell us what we can or can't do in our own country.

This notion that America can pass laws making what citizens of other countries do legally in their own countries according to their own countries laws illegal - ABSURD!
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  #10  
Old 05-18-2004, 01:48 PM
nolanfan34 nolanfan34 is offline
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Default Re: Online Legality In WA State

[img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

Out of all the cliches I could have used too...

Funny stuff.

cardcounter, that's an interesting point about poker being an authorized activity. I would have to assume that is how state law would be forced to look at online poker.

I think I would only ever get nervous if I had a huge score like winning a Stars or Party $250,000 tournament and wanted to make a big cashout. Unfortunately that hasn't been a problem quite yet. [img]/images/graemlins/wink.gif[/img]
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