Quick question on value betting flushes

[kenewbie]

65c on the button, 4 people limp before me, I limp in, sb folds and bb checks.

flop comes Ks Tc 2c.

BB bets, everyone limps to me.

I raise. Bad move with such a low flush-draw?

k

[blackaces13]

No, its a good move. Not only are you getting some value but you may get a free (1/2 off) card on the turn.

[SpacePirate]

I wouldn't worry about your low flush cards yet because you have no information that would suggest that they are inferior at the moment.

I usually make a raise in situations like these to get a "free card" on the turn. However if you make your flush and are checked raised, you should probably toss your cards. But thats just me, I'm abnormaly tight.

-SpacePirate

[kenewbie]

Ok thank you for making it clear. I started doubting the move right after I made it.

I was chanting the "flush over flush is rare with 3 suited on the board" mantra but I couldn't totally convince myself that any 4 to a flush no matter how low is worth valuebetting.

k

[blackaces13]

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However if you make your flush and are checked raised, you should probably toss your cards

[/ QUOTE ]

I don't think this is good advice. The next flush I throw away using both of my cards on an unpaired board will be the first. If you make a flush and get CRed I would either call it down right there or re-raise the turn and call the river if he caps it.

[SoCalPat]

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However if you make your flush and are checked raised, you should probably toss your cards


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I don't think this is good advice. The next flush I throw away using both of my cards on an unpaired board will be the first. If you make a flush and get CRed I would either call it down right there or re-raise the turn and call the river if he caps it.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed 100 percent. This is horrible advice for even a LL game, much less a micro. In fact, I don't know if it's possible to be a consistent winner at this level if you're capable of such a laydown.

[AA suited]

if you make a low flush on the turn and are check raised, you will re-raise? you're saying at micro-limits, you don't believe what they may have and win more overall by doing this?

[RED_RAIN]

I don't know what level you are talking about right now. But at the micro level...I like the raise on the flop, perhaps a free card, if they bet into you on the turn I would still call since your flush is probably still good and the pot should be good for your odds. If I hit the flush on turn and am c/r, I usually just call since you do have a weak flush and if another flush card comes on river you are going to be in trouble. On river if they check after raising or calling on turn, I will always bet it. I don't think it's ever right to lay down to a raise on the turn here even with a low flush. Too often they will also do this if they hit 2 pair or a set.

[blackaces13]

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if you make a low flush on the turn and are check raised, you will re-raise? you're saying at micro-limits, you don't believe what they may have and win more overall by doing this?




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What I'm saying is that a lot of people will CR on the turn with: a set, 2-pair, an even lower flush (though not likley in this case), AA unimproved, a straight, etc. You can't just put them on a high flush although they may well have one.

On the original hand here there was a K and T on the board. If the next card was a flush completing Jc, don't you think a player with AQ would CR the turn, how about JJ? Its certainly possible and that's why, above all else, you can't fold.

So, you can either call it down right then and there, which may actually be a little weak but that's debatable. You may want to put the CRer to the test right there and pop him back. Now if he calls and checks the river to you then you likley gain a bet, if he caps and bets the river and beats you then you lose 2 bets. Either way, you're not folding so its a judgement call on how likely you think it is that you are behind. Neither method is gonna kill you in the longrun IMO and they're largely based in who is doing the raising and what is on the board.

[RED_RAIN]

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
if you make a low flush on the turn and are check raised, you will re-raise? you're saying at micro-limits, you don't believe what they may have and win more overall by doing this?




[/ QUOTE ]

What I'm saying is that a lot of people will CR on the turn with: a set, 2-pair, an even lower flush (though not likley in this case), AA unimproved, a straight, etc. You can't just put them on a high flush although they may well have one.

On the original hand here there was a K and T on the board. If the next card was a flush completing Jc, don't you think a player with AQ would CR the turn, how about JJ? Its certainly possible and that's why, above all else, you can't fold.

So, you can either call it down right then and there, which may actually be a little weak but that's debatable. You may want to put the CRer to the test right there and pop him back. Now if he calls and checks the river to you then you likley gain a bet, if he caps and bets the river and beats you then you lose 2 bets. Either way, you're not folding so its a judgement call on how likely you think it is that you are behind. Neither method is gonna kill you in the longrun IMO and they're largely based in who is doing the raising and what is on the board.

[/ QUOTE ]

Perhaps a lot to do with the level of variance you want. If you have a big bankroll or for some real a very small one. If someone is gonna cap back at you when the flush does come on the turn and bet at the river I would start to think if a full house isn't possible that perhaps my flush is no good if it's low or if the turn made a full house then maybe my flush is no good. We can count out probably pocket 10s and above since no preflop raise.