stop, go, and gone

[sweetzer]

Party 15-30, I'm UTG with JJ, suits not important.

I raise, a solid UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, CO calls.

4 to flop for 10 small bets.

Flop: TT3, I bet, UTG+2 raises, MP2 folds, CO calls, I call.
3 to turn for 8 large bets.

Turn is a blank. I bet, UTG+2 raises, CO folds, I fold. Would anyone call this turn raise? Or reraise the flop?

[steveyz]

I think UTG+2 has a medium pocket pair, maybe 77, 88 .. most players will not raise the flop with a T. I'd consider check-raising the turn and folding to a 3-bet or just calling it down. I think UTG+2 puts you on overcards and is trying to get you to fold.

[j.k.]

What does a solid player cold call an UTG raiser with? Sounds like he may not be so solid after all. Either way, I do believe you folded the best hand. Call his turn raise, and lead out again on the river since he might check behind his lower pair after you call the turn, but will likely call a bet.

j.k.

[DocHollyday]

[ QUOTE ]
What does a solid player cold call an UTG raiser with?

[/ QUOTE ]

How about TT,AKs,AQs,AJs,JJ?

[DcifrThs]

Doc,

against a tight UTG raiser you cold call behind with tt? in a LOOOSE game i'd consider cold calling here with AKs...but that's about it...MAAAYBE AQS, but the pairs i'd 3bet as it would cut down the field unless i saw the field cold calling 3 for some time and then i might cold call TT or JJ. but even then you'd almost have to knock the extra 3 chips out of my hand to stop me from 3 betting.

yes there are times for it but for the most part, unless the game called for it which was not specified, a solid player will not cold call a UTG raise lightly and IMO having a T in his hand makes the call "lightly" so i don't think he has a ten. 8 out of 10 times in this spot you're looking at 88 or 99 from this guy IMO. and i don't think the classification "solid" fits the bill.

-Barron

[Clarkmeister]

I find it hard to believe that they aren't eating you alive.

[Mikey]

Come on Clarky what do you mean by this? This is twice he's met resistance, are you advocating calling this one down.

On the flop he bets out and is raised, the guy behind him cold calls.

On the turn he bets out and the it is raised again by the same person who if he didn't have a 10 would have to be worried that the guy behind him has one. Therfore it is more likely that the raiser does have a 10. Hence this fold being correct.

Maybe there is a better way to play it. ??

[sweetzer]

Clark,

Interestingly, I think a weakness in my game is that I don't fold often enough for the turn raise or chk ras. Probably 80% of the time I pay the two additional bets. In my other post today I called a turn chk ras and then raised on the river, albeit without profit. I agree here that the key question is what would a solid player call an UTG raise with that also included a ten?. With more thought on this, I should have gone to the showdown, likely 3 betting the turn. The key mistake was not taking the time to think this through and instead, relying on the instincts of the moment, I simply felt that I was beat.

[Clarkmeister]

The problem is that you are spewing tons of chips on both the flop and turn and then still calling down. Take a less aggressive line sometimes. Its quite alright to quietly get to showdown. But putting yourself in a position to lose 4+ big bets postflop with only a pair is generally a real bad idea. Its easy to get carried away with aggression.....we are taught to be aggressive around here. Guys like me hammer in the need to be aggressive to the newer players. But you get to a point where you are in an online 15-30 and everyone is all souped up and real aggressive. Guess what? You don't need to be as aggresssive anymore.

[Michael Davis]

I think you make an excellent point here and hope you make it more often. When playing against good players who will often make thin value bets and semibluff, but will also bet when they have you smashed, you need to turn off the raising arm and call down more often. If there is a time to raise early in the hand, it's when you are weak yourself.

Until you can't get away with this anymore, of course. Then you have to readjust.

-Michael