My table of 6 handed open raising standards

[King Yao]

There have been some threads about open raising standards in shorthanded games, so I thought I'd share my personal table of opening raising standards in 3 to 6 handed games. If I list a hand like T9s, it means any hand of that category that is higher than T9s would be open-raise hands as well, such as QJs and KQs. Hands in () are hands that I may add if the game is full of passive, predictable players. As a side note, I almost never open limp. Maybe once I a while I'll limp with KQo/JTs UTG, but I'll pare that off with limping with AA/KK UTG once in a while too, but I do it so seldom, its probably not even worth mentioning. If the game is 4 handed then the UTG and UTG +1 columns do not exist, the first player will be from the Cutoff column. In a 5 handed game, the UTG +1 would be first to act. For the Cutoff and the Button, I have 2 columns for each, A and B. A is for games that are a bit tougher/aggressive where the Small Blind will reraise often when he comes in, and the Button will reraise willingly. B is for a game where the players are more passive and predictable, less semi-bluffing. This table says nothing about what to do if a player in front of you limps or raises...it is only intended when you are first in.

<font class="small">Code:</font><hr /><pre>Min open-raisers UTG UTG+1 Cutoff A Cutoff B Button A Button B
Pair . 77(66) 66(55) 55 22 33 22
Offsuit Connectors AKo KQo QJo QJo T9o 98o
Offsuit One Gap AQo KJo QTo QTo J9o T8o
Offsuit Two Gap AJo AJo KTo KTo Q9o Q9o
Offsuit High Card ATo A9o(A8o) A7o A5o A2o/K7o A2o/K5o/Q8o

Suited Connectors KQs KQs(QJs) JTs JTs T9s 65s
Suited One Gap KJs KJs QTs QTs T8s 86s
Suited Two Gap AJs KTs KTs Q9s J8s T7s
Suited High Card A9s(A8s) A7s(A5s) A4s/K9s A2s/K8s A2s/K2s/Q7s A2s/K2s/Q4s/J7s

</pre><hr />

note: I may be putting this table (or something close to it if I make adjustments) in a text in the future, if that bothers you (i hope it won't, but who knows), keep that in mind when you comment.

[stripsqueez]

its an interesting topic but ultimately there are lots of marginal positions or decisions based on the sort of game your in - i guess i just dont like reducing it to a list because it doesnt mirror the reality of what your doing - i'm confident that we wouldnt disagree too much on that point

consider shania - if you only raised AA KK QQ AKs and 72o UTG and your opponents were good enough to notice you could probably turn 72o into a winner

i took a look at open raising UTG in my 60,000+ hand 6 max pokertracker data base recently - i think i should play more hands UTG because they were all big winners (except 1 or 2 which i would ascribe to statistical abberation as they werent the obvious marginal hands) - to talk specifically Q10s and QJs were doing great raising UTG 6 handed

UTG your hands are generally very close to my default choices - on the button your hands are looser than mine - i might suggest that the positional advantage of being folded to on the button and trying to steal the blinds is over rated - its over rated because even the poor players are very sensitive to it

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[King Yao]

[ QUOTE ]
i guess i just dont like reducing it to a list because it doesnt mirror the reality of what your doing - i'm confident that we wouldnt disagree too much on that point

[/ QUOTE ]
we don't disagree...in fact, I don't actually use the list when I play (nor do I memorize it), I play it by feel but my "feel" should be close to this list anyway. I feel the list serves two purposes: 1. for me to clarify my own play to myself....2. for others who have been asking.


[ QUOTE ]
consider shania - if you only raised AA KK QQ AKs and 72o UTG and your opponents were good enough to notice you could probably turn 72o into a winner

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure what "shania" means (72o? or some other terminology?) ... anyway, that's only if all 5 of your opponents are all very aware, and that would be a very atypical online game...if you just had 1 or 2 opponents who weren't aware, it wouldn't be very fun for you. Let me know the next time you feel you are in a game where you could turn 72o UTG into a winner, and I'll let you know that you probably already left that game 15 minutes earlier [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[ QUOTE ]
i took a look at open raising UTG in my 60,000+ hand 6 max pokertracker data base recently - i think i should play more hands UTG because they were all big winners

[/ QUOTE ]

I disagree with this statement. You said you were a big winner with all the hands you played UTG...this doesn't mean that if you played worse hands that those hands would be winners too. It might be true, but it could be false, I don't see a causation here. I believe if you open raised in 6 handed UTG with hands that I recommend in the Cutoff A situation, you'd find those to at best zero expectancy, but that's only because you can play well postflop and take less of a beating than other players.

[/ QUOTE ]


[ QUOTE ]
on the button your hands are looser than mine - i might suggest that the positional advantage of being folded to on the button and trying to steal the blinds is over rated - its over rated because even the poor players are very sensitive to it

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure which Button column you are referring to or if it makes a difference to you. Do you think both Button A column and Button B columns are too loose/aggressive or just the Button B column?

Thanks for your intelligent responses as usual, I appreciate it.

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what "shania" means (72o? or some other terminology?) ... anyway, that's only if all 5 of your opponents are all very aware, and that would be a very atypical online game...if you just had 1 or 2 opponents who weren't aware, it wouldn't be very fun for you. Let me know the next time you feel you are in a game where you could turn 72o UTG into a winner, and I'll let you know that you probably already left that game 15 minutes earlier [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

Shania means a lot of things, but in this case I think strips is referring to the practice of playing certain hands in certain positions which, while not +EV in and of themselves, become profitable plays because of the way in which they interact with your other starters.

For example, I might raise with 7 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 5 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] UTG. If I always raised with mid-suited connectors from this position (and always folded high cards), and my opponents knew this, this would surely be a losing proposition. However, if I raise with a hand like 75s occasionally, it can be a profitable play for a couple of reasons:

1a) Because my opponents expect me to be raising with high-rank cards, I often get paid off very well when I hit my hand on a board that's something like 855 or 86J4.

1b) Conversely, I can frequently win the hand on the flop if the board comes with an A or a K.

2a) By showing down the hand, I can frequently generate more action on high-card boards when I do in fact have high cards, which most of the time I will.

2b) Conversely, by showing down, I can protect against the blinds attempting to steal every time that I raise from EP and the flop comes low or middle cards.

Basically, Shania is an offshoot of the Fundamental Theorem of Poker - you don't want your opponents to play as if they knew what you held, and by mixing your preflop play in the right ratios, you make it more difficult for them to put you on a hand. As much as it might please to say that our shorthanded opponents are unobservant and unthinking, I do think that varying your play is an essential strategy in these games, and it all begins before the flop.

[stripsqueez]

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure what "shania" means

[/ QUOTE ]

it comes from a post by some ferret obsessed guy called something like shredni ?? - do a search in the general or mid/high stakes forum using "shania twain" - i dont mean to suggest that i will be raising 72o UTG anytime soon - i am thinking of adding specifically 6c5c and 6d5d to my UTG raising hands but havent developed the guts for it just yet - it is meant to serve as a dramatic example of how a dogmatic approach to starting hands UTG isnt best

[ QUOTE ]
I'm not sure which Button column you are referring to or if it makes a difference to you. Do you think both Button A column and Button B columns are too loose/aggressive or just the Button B column?

[/ QUOTE ]

both - to clarify my original statement - open raising on the button is a universally known tactic for stealing the blinds - its a bit like isolating the loose maniac pre-flop - often when i 3 bet a maniac pre-flop the next guy who is semi solid caps with AJo because he knows that i might be attempting to isolate - because everyone knows that i am stealing when i open raise on the button i prefer to have a stronger hand than your advocating - thats not to say i am a rock on the button - i am after all the founding member of the always open raise on the button with A2o club - i am happy for my opponents to make the mistake of defending too much but if thats the mistake they are making then isnt it right for me to play stronger hands and drop off some of the more marginal hands ?

stripsqueez - chickenhawk

[King Yao]

[ QUOTE ]
Shania means a lot of things............ As much as it might please to say that our shorthanded opponents are unobservant and unthinking, I do think that varying your play is an essential strategy in these games, and it all begins before the flop.

[/ QUOTE ]


Thanks for the meaning of Shania, pretty cool that this board can use one word to describe a nice concept. I don't know how often you guys think a play like this should be made, but I don't think it should be anymore than once in a 40 hour playing week. anymore than that and I suspect the play itself will cost more than the possible positive expectancy gained in other hands.

[Schneids]

[ QUOTE ]
I don't know how often you guys think a play like this should be made, but I don't think it should be anymore than once in a 40 hour playing week.

[/ QUOTE ]

I like to do it about once a session or two when I'm seated with my 'frequent targets.'

I also like to do it when a 2+2er is seated and try to give them a hand to post about so it enhances my reckless image amongst the players and lurkers of this board. One of these days I'll be exposed for the weak-tight fraud I am. [img]/images/graemlins/smirk.gif[/img]

[James282]

Weak-tight? Like when you called my button PFR heads up with J6 and check-raised a 268 board and then capped it? [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Weak tight, you aren't!
-James

[Ulysses]

You play way more hands than me. I think your chart is pretty much in line w/ the way a lot of players play in the 6-max games. I like it that way and hope your text becomes very popular.

[King Yao]

[ QUOTE ]
You play way more hands than me.

[/ QUOTE ]

I'd be interested to know which hands that I open raise with that you would play differently.