JJ after UTG raise

[well]

€10/€20 9-handed

I have JJ at UTG+2

UTG raises
UTG+1 folds
I re-raise
All fold, UTG calls

FLOP: T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]

check-bet-call

TURN: A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

check-check

RIVER: 7[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]

check-check

What do you think of this?

[risen]

Why did you fail to bet the turn? You probably would have taken the pot down right there instead of giving up a free card and showdown.

[JoeU]

I think you need to bet the river. It looks like he might possibly have been on a flush draw of sorts. If I had AA, KK, QQ in his spot, I would check the flop with the intention of check/raising, not check/calling. The A is a scare card on the turn, but if he was trying for the check/raise on the turn with AA or AK, he missed and would bet the river.

I'd like to know a little more about you're read on this player, and exactly which JJ you had, just to see if you had a backdoor flush draw on the flop.

Joe

[Dynasty]

You can consider checking KK on the turn. But, you should bet JJ.

[well]

First of all, coming to think of it, the ten on the board was
in fact not a ten, but a nine...

The man was quite new to the table, so I didn't see much.
Most players where I played weren't that good, but my impression
was that he could be one of the better players at the table.

Now, his flop check-call.
I didn't know what to think of that, but in my opinion he failed
to check-raise by mistake, or with the intention to do that on the
turn, or he waited with overcards with maybe a flushdraw.

Then the ace came. Understandbly I did not like that.
When he checked again, I found the following possibilities to be likely:
- some AA/AK/AQ, but then I think an attempt to check-raise was too risky here,
so giving him a little respect for his game, I did not think of it as
too likely.
- KK-TT, more likely. In this case, the missed check-raise was too risky,
especially with TT/JJ and slightly less with QQ.
- KQ of clubs. Could be, but since there's only one combination for this:
less likely.

Some of my riverthoughts I already made up on the turn, but here they come.

Checked again.
What would a bet do here?
In my opinion, there's not much room for a value-bet.
With what hands would he call me here? I think the only worse hand would be
tens, don't you think?
I would not expect a bluff check-raise here, so winning extra by calling there
is out of the question (main reason: I would fold then).
If he really was on a draw, betting would do nothing good (except for that I
would not have had to show my hand).

Hence, I checked.

He had in fact KK.
I felt good.

Next time.

[JimmyV]

I think this is the second-best way of playing it. It's a line I'd take probably 30% of the time. But the rest of the time I'd bet the turn planning to fold to a check-raise. It costs the same as calling the river and gives you maybe a 32% chance of folding a hand like, say, KK.

Precisely percentageizing,

JimmyV

[elindauer]

[ QUOTE ]
Why did you fail to bet the turn? You probably would have taken the pot down right there instead of giving up a free card and showdown.

[/ QUOTE ]

You think he's check-folding KK here? I find this very unlikely.

That said, I agree that betting the turn in this situation is reasonable due to the large number of overcards that can hit the river. As another poster said, I'd be more inclined to check KK on the turn than JJ.

When I do chosse to check the turn, I'd value bet KK but would check the JJ as you did. As you point out, there isn't much he can call with that you beat.

[PassiveCaller]

I bet JJ on the turn most of the time in this spot and if I didn't I'm definitely betting the river with position.

[Ulysses]

[ QUOTE ]
You can consider checking KK on the turn. But, you should bet JJ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Do you see why?

[well]

As other posters also already pointed out:
A bet on the river could (hardly) never be a value-bet here!