Five hands with questions.

kenewbie · #1 04-22-2004, 04:42 AM

Hand #1: I feel like I have to bet this hand on the flop. If I dont improve I plan to check/fold. Is the flop worth a bet?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is BB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (5 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (5 players) 
SB checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, CO calls, SB folds.

Turn: (4.50 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (4 players) 
Hero checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, CO folds, Hero folds, UTG folds.

Final Pot: 5.50 BB
Main Pot: 4.50 BB, won by UTG+1.
Pot 2: 1 BB, overbet by UTG+1.

Results in white below: 
No showdown. UTG+1 wins 5.50 BB. 

Hand #2: I think I played this one ok, the board looks mighty scary on the river so I check

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, Hero completes, BB checks.

Flop: (8 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (8 players) 
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP1 folds, MP2 bets, MP3 folds, Button folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (9 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (5 players) 
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP2 calls.

River: (12 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero checks, BB checks, MP2 checks.

Final Pot: 12 BB
Main Pot: 12 BB, between Hero, BB and MP2. > Pot won by Hero (12 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows 9s 8d (straight, queen high).
BB shows 3c 9c (two pair, queens and tens).
MP2 shows Ac As (two pair, aces and queens).
Outcome: Hero wins 12 BB. 

Hand #3: Should I bet the turn here? I think one of my major leaks are going too far with raised hands that dont improve on the flop.

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (9.50 SB) 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 2[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players) 
UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero bets, UTG calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (6.75 BB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players) 
UTG checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks.

River: (6.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (4 players) 
UTG bets, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero folds.

Final Pot: 9.75 BB
Main Pot: 9.75 BB, between MP1, MP2 and UTG. > Pot won by UTG (9.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows Th Ah (flush, ace high).
MP1 shows 8h 8s (straight, six high).
MP2 shows Qd Js (straight, six high).
Outcome: UTG wins 9.75 BB. 

Hand #4: Can I lay this hand down when I'm raised?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (9 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is MP2 with A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 folds, Hero raises, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (5.50 SB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players) 
Hero bets, Button raises, Hero calls.

Turn: (4.75 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players) 
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

River: (6.75 BB) J[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (2 players) 
Hero checks, Button bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.75 BB
Main Pot: 8.75 BB, between Hero and Button. > Pot won by Button (8.75 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Ah Ad (two pair, aces and kings).
Button shows Qd Kh (three of a kind, kings).
Outcome: Button wins 8.75 BB. 

Hand #5: Once again, nice preflop hand that doesnt improve. When do I stop betting?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is UTG with K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
Hero raises, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds.

Flop: (7.50 SB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero bets, MP3 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (5.25 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

River: (5.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (3 players) 
Hero checks, MP3 checks, Button checks.

Final Pot: 5.25 BB
Main Pot: 5.25 BB, between MP3, Button and Hero. > Pot won by Hero (5.25 BB).

Results in white below: 
Hero shows Kc Ad (high card, ace).
MP3 shows Jd Ks (high card, king).
Button shows 9h Kd (high card, king).
Outcome: Hero wins 5.25 BB. 

Any and all feedback welcome.

k

easypete · #2 04-22-2004, 09:54 AM

I'm assuming typical Party .50/1 table (LPG):

Hand 1:

With 4 others seeing flop, I don't like a bet here. I would check-fold (if only 1 or 2 others in on flop, I may bet this). Someone may have a J or two diamonds.

Hand #2:

I'm betting the flop. Sure, you're on the idiot side of it, but you need to know if you're up against K9 (w/ 7 others, it's possible). You need to find out now, rather than on turn or river, and I don't think a check raise tells you. If I'm MP2 and have K9 on flop, I'm calling and waiting for turn to raise. I don't think you have a problem w/ AK (no raise pf, even a LPP raises w/ that most the time). The flop is rainbowed, so no problem w/ flushes.

I would have played turn and river the same.

Hand #3: Should I bet the turn here?

No. I bet flop, check-fold turn and river.

Hand #4: Can I lay this hand down when I'm raised?

It depends. You are heads up. Two Kings are scary. If the button has shown some aggression w/ paired boards, I would call, otherwise I would fold here. You had the lead going into the flop. You bet on flop (good bet), you were raised. On Party .50/1, this raise most of the time means they have a K. To call down to the river in this situation, you would have to put another 2.5 BB into the pot (assuming they will bet the turn and river) to win 5.25 BB. I think that this means trip K's more than 50% of the time. (I don't see too many free card plays on the .50/1 tables for the club flush). If it was a free card play, the turn made it for the button. IMO, a call here is bad.

Hand #5: Once again, nice preflop hand that doesnt improve. When do I stop betting?

Only thing I would change is possibly betting the river. With only 2 callers pf, and 2 callers on flop, they may have paired the 6 or 7, or have a Q w/ weak kicker, but you checked the turn and nobody bet. River is a blank. I would bet the river.

afs · #3 04-22-2004, 10:25 AM

Advice from other folks is worth much more. But my thoughts are --

Hand 1: Check/fold. If your plan is to fold if unimproved, you have five outs. Or four, if the A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] is dirty. Somebody probably has a J, and there's likely a flush or straight draw out there.

Hand 2: I think it's about even EV betting & check-calling the river. Well played.

Hand 3: I like it.

Hand 4: That's hard. Seems about even folding flop, folding turn, and calling down. Folding is good in retrospect -- really don't know.

Hand 5: My overcard play is super shakey, so don't necessarily believe me when I say betting either the turn or river is good. Actually, I like how this was played. This hand would be so much easier w/ better position ...

kenewbie · #4 04-22-2004, 10:26 AM

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With 4 others seeing flop, I don't like a bet here.

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In hindsight, I agree.

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you need to know if you're up against K9 (w/ 7 others, it's possible). You need to find out now, rather than on turn or river, and I don't think a check raise tells you.

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Not sure if I agree on this. I think K9 (or slowplayed AK which i've seen a lot of lately on party for some reason) will 3-bet me.
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If I'm MP2 and have K9 on flop, I'm calling and waiting for turn to raise.

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I think that is above the average party 0.5/1 sophistication but you do have a point [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

k

citizenkn · #5 04-22-2004, 12:03 PM

Hand #1: check/fold the flop. You're beaten by a jack, and one of your ace outs is tainted (diamond ace could make someone a flush). You have no straight/flush possibilities, so your chances of significantly improving your hand are slim.

Hand #2: played fine. That was a mighty scary river card...

Hand #3: Played fine, assuming you intended to check fold on the turn....

Hand #4: I might reraise, just on the chance that he's semi-bluffing with a flush draw. If he caps it, I'll fold. If he just calls a re-raise, I'd fold to a turn bet, or take a free card if he checks on the turn.

Hand #5: Bet the river. Other than that, played just fine.

SoCalPat · #6 04-22-2004, 01:20 PM

Hand 1: You don't have a bet here, not with middle pair. But if the flop came 9-high, I would've done this: Hope for a late position bettor to lead out and go for the check-raise. You probably have the best hand at this point, but you need to thin the field to get rid of the overcards that are surely out there. This is the only way to do it.

Hand 2: I would probably bet out here and hold off on the check-raise until the turn -- assuming a blank hit. That T on the turn is definitely not a blank, and that River Queen is a disaster. Fortunately, you still won the hand.

Hand 3: You have three other players in the hand, essentially giving you no chance of getting them all to fold by betting. Take your free card and hope for the best. Your AK is bordering on worthless at this stage.

Hand 4: Call me a chump, but heads-up, I'm taking this all the way to showdown unless I'm up against a known solid player. First, who would raise the flop with a K? Wouldn't you wait until the turn? This is a very player-dependent hand in a heads-up situation, and I would've done it the same way. An incorrect fold heads-up with the best starting hand is simply disastrous, but check/calling all the way and losing not nearly so.

Hand 5: Unlike your previously unimproved AK, you have one less player in the pot. Your raise PF is showing enough aggression that a bet on the flop against just two players might be enough to win it. You're in check/fold mode the rest of the way. Isn't it great winning pots with unimproved AK?

Raiser · #7 04-22-2004, 01:57 PM

Is this an auto call for everyone PF? I realize he has an army of limpers before him, but is it worth it to call with a hand that's only strength is drawing to a straight?

I guess that in the heat of the battle I would probably call too, but I would wonder to myself if it is correct. Thoughts?

afs · #8 04-22-2004, 02:11 PM

[ QUOTE ]
Is this an auto call for everyone PF? I realize he has an army of limpers before him, but is it worth it to call with a hand that's only strength is drawing to a straight?

I guess that in the heat of the battle I would probably call too, but I would wonder to myself if it is correct. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

15:1 pot odds ... you probably need to win this about one time in fifty to make it right.

I think?

Raiser · #9 04-22-2004, 02:18 PM

[ QUOTE ]
[ QUOTE ]
Is this an auto call for everyone PF? I realize he has an army of limpers before him, but is it worth it to call with a hand that's only strength is drawing to a straight?

I guess that in the heat of the battle I would probably call too, but I would wonder to myself if it is correct. Thoughts?

[/ QUOTE ]

15:1 pot odds ... you probably need to win this about one time in fifty to make it right.

I think?

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Can you explain how the 15:1 odds matches up with needing to win 1 time in 50? I don't understand this connection.

Thanks

afs · #10 04-22-2004, 02:19 PM

I just used a hand calculator, and 98o against 7 random hands wins ~15% of the time. Pretty much exactly even. And this should be a very easy hand to play post-flop ... becoming pretty convinced that this is a near _necessary_ call.