Too weak on the river? (QQ in the SB)

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Played these two hands tonight at loose Party 2/4 tables, and am annoyed at my river play. I've had a few river beats that caused me to call extra bets of late. I bet the river most of the time, but felt I might be beat by hangers on and just check-called. I was telling myself at the time that I was likely beat in these situations, and should check-call, but now I think I was just being a sissy. Fire away!


Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

<font color="green">Hand #1 </font> Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, CO folds, Button calls, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Flop: (10 SB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button calls.

Turn: (7.50 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, Button folds.

River: (11.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 14.50 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 14.50 BB, between UTG+2, Hero and BB.</font>

<font color="green">Hand #2 </font>
Party Poker 2/4 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Button folds, <font color="CC3333">Hero raises</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 calls, MP3 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (14 SB) 9[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(7 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP3 folds, CO calls.

Turn: (9 BB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(4 players) </font>
<font color="CC3333">Hero bets</font>, BB calls, UTG calls, CO folds.

River: (12 BB) T[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players) </font>
Hero checks, <font color="CC3333">BB bets</font>, UTG calls, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 15 BB
<font color="#990066">Main Pot: 15 BB, between Hero, BB and UTG.</font>

[LivingLegend58]

Hand One you still bet the river, I dont think you are beat.

Hand two is tuff for me as an aspiring poker player, ithink if you bet the river you fold to a raise, but also I dont think you can check call the river.

[Edge34]

Hand 1 - Bet the river and call a raise. Of course, I know how you feel when those little board pairs come up, but that check leaves too many potential callers with worse hands free to check through. Doubt that would've happened, but still. QQ looks good from here.

Hand 2 - I'd bet the river and call a raise. The pair with a good kicker potential for rivered trips is a lot scarier here than it was on the first hand, but I like keeping control. This may not make much sense, but if I'm going to call a bet anyway on the river, I like to be the one to put it out there first if I've got as strong a hand as you do.

-Edge

[FletchJr.]

Hand 1. bet/call a raise. There's just way way too many hands out there u can beat.

Hand 2 It's close IMO but i lean towards betting the river, maybe c/c if your opponents are tighter players, but definetly bet into loose players. If u bet, I don't think you should be laying down your QQ here if you are raised. so if you absolutly hate calling raises on the river when your beat just check and call this hand down.

[BigBaitsim (milo)]

Astonishingly, my queens were good on both hands.

[T5off]

Hand 1 is clear, the 5 pairing shouldn't worry you at all. Bet. Hand 2 is a lot less clear. Top pair of Ts would probably have played this way. There seems to be no flush, since you weren't raised on the turn. I think the check is fine, inducing a bluff (if you think that'll work), otherwise a bet is fine too.

[sfer]

Hand 1 you bet. Is Hand 2 the same table and the BB the same player is the same as Hand 1? I usually bet Hand 2 but if the BB showed something like 77/A8o/A2o in Hand 1 then it makes the decision to bet a million times easier.

[tripdad]

i read the results, so my opinion may seem tainted, but i would think you are good here both times, and should bet the river. and, actually, i think if you were beaten, it would have been the first hand.

reasoning: if there were a flush either hand, you would have certainly been raised on the turn. even if it is an ace high flush you are against, they would(at least i would) raise you on the turn. in hand 2, if someone had a 10, you would have been raised on the flop because they would want to charge extra for the flush/straight draws.

at any rate, you should always bet the river absent a very strong read.

cheers!

[tripdad]

[ QUOTE ]
and, actually, i think if you were beaten, it would have been the first hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

A5s may call to the river with odds. it may be that an A5 folded to the turn bet when the flush scare card came.

cheers!