pocket jacks.....would you fold ??

[ddwarbuck]

early in a no limit tourney, i'm EP with JJ. i raise about 4x the big bling. MP raises me double, LP goes all in, BB goes all in and now back to me.....i fold.....they all have some form of Ax....flop comes and no one matches....my JJ would hit and would have a four bagger.....but life goes on....any thoughts???

[unreal_ugn]

Easy fold to all that action early in a tournament in my mind. Too bad you would have won it, but you don't want to be risking all of your chips as a small favorite (or potential dog).

[Greg (FossilMan)]

Just saying they went all-in isn't enough. You need to tell us for how much. For all I know you were getting 6:1 or better on the call, in which case even if you're behind an overpair, you're getting the odds to suck out, and depending upon the stage of the tournament and how well you match up to the opponents, trying to suck out might be the right play.

Later, Greg Raymer (FossilMan)

[cferejohn]

Unless you know these players are gaga (and, well, you do now), I think you have to fold here. Absent some good reason to do otherwise, I'm not calling with JJ against 2 all-ins early in a tournament.

[cferejohn]

[ QUOTE ]
Just saying they went all-in isn't enough. You need to tell us for how much. For all I know you were getting 6:1 or better on the call, in which case even if you're behind an overpair, you're getting the odds to suck out, and depending upon the stage of the tournament and how well you match up to the opponents, trying to suck out might be the right play.


[/ QUOTE ]

He did say 'early' in the tournament, which leads me to belive he wasn't getting much more than 2:1 on his money.

[sawil]

With 2 all-ins before him and a guy behind him with a minimum reraise, I'd say he's getting at least 3-1 and probably 4-1 if they all have about same size stack. I would also assume that JJ is behind here with all the action assuming somewhat typical players. Still, it's a call I would sometimes make ... you win it and enjoy a big lead early in a tourney ... you lose and move on to the next one. Are you more apt to fold this if it is the 3rd hand in the WSOP? Are you more likely to call this if it's the beginning stages of a $3 rebuy? I guess I'm saying there would be many other variables for me to consider before folding or calling. Woul'nt it be nice to call and see them all flip over AK off to be practically drawing dead [img]/images/graemlins/ooo.gif[/img]

[DrPhysic]

It is thoughtful analysis like this thread (ie: Greg, cferejohn, sawil) that will keep me reading 2+2 as long as I play the game. Thank you for making me think.

My analysis of JJ is that it is a negative implied odds hand. Meaning that I am probably ahead preflop, but will not be if I let people see very many cards. Therefore I bet 4xBB to 5xBB as was done here, and fold in a second to a re-raise almost regardless of where I am in a tournament. The possiblilty of picking up a big pot is to me outweighed by the probablility of being outdrawn (especially by 2 or 3 others raising and calling big bets) and losing it all. I really don't think JJ is a very good hand at a full table.

Doc [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[jonnyv]

Since it is early in the tourny this was a great laydown. Too bad that you where playing with a bunch of maniacs. After being reraised and having two going all in I don't see how you could have thought you were ahead here. You would have to think that one of them had a hand here. The only other way to look at it is to gamble because of the huge pot odds you are getting as if you win you can cruise to the final table. This looks a lot like the party 5 doller tournys.

[C M Burns]

This seems to bring up the questions as to what kind of odds you want in the early stage of this kind of tournament. To me it seems like in the very early stages it may make sense to gamble a little more if the payoff is pretty big, just because the buyins are cheap and the implied odds of winning are very high. In the beginning all you really have to lose is your 30$ or whatever, with 1k entrants. And you can easily play another later or tommorow and be in the same position.

Now if it is more toward the middle and you are in ok position, now you have more to lose b/c you can't just buyin to where you are, so you'd want better odds.

So in this hand, I assume everyone has him covered, it looks like you should be getting 3/4 -1 on your call, and are probably about a 3/4-1 dog. So I think you could consider calling, if it is early in one of those cheap many player tourneys. Just becuase if you win you are in good position to do well, and if you loose you don't have much invested. and in touneies that big you are going to have to hit a couple hands where you get very lucky to do well.

To me it seems when i play very tight early, usually i stick around for awhile, but don't have many chips, and then when I do get a hand i still need to double up several times to get anywhere, and it just takes 1 beat to bust me. I just think it would be better to take a chance and either bust out earlier and play something else or be in a decent position.


Now if this was a bigg buyin rarer event, a smaller tourney, or you thought you were vastly superior to most of the other players I don't think u would want to consider calling here.