Can I play this one differently?

TimM · #1 04-14-2004, 08:52 AM

Party Poker 3/6 Hold'em (10 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is CO with K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 folds, Hero raises, Button folds, SB folds, BB folds, UTG 3-bets, Hero calls.

Flop: (7.33 SB) A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], 5[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG calls.

Turn: (4.66 BB) Q[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG checks, Hero bets, UTG raises, Hero calls.

River: (8.66 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (2 players)
UTG bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 10.66 BB
Main Pot: 10.66 BB, between Hero and UTG. > Pot won by UTG (10.66 BB).

Results in white below: 
UTG shows Ac Ad (three of a kind, aces).
Hero shows Kh As (two pair, aces and kings).
Outcome: UTG wins 10.66 BB.

bigslick98 · #2 04-14-2004, 09:09 AM

No....IMO

Quackpot · #3 04-14-2004, 09:22 AM

Nope, he either has a set or big diamonds.

TimM · #4 04-14-2004, 09:32 AM

Earier he check-raised me heads up on the turn with nothing but a 4 suited hand. I had AK or AQ or something and PF raised. He had cold called from the button J9s and caught a J on the river to win. I thought KKd, QQd or maybe even AdKd were not inconceivable here, but I have gotten burned by a few limp re-raises and it always seems to be Aces. Was wondering if I could have given him more respect in this hand.

Jeffro · #5 04-14-2004, 09:32 AM

Then why call the river, if this is what he has.

AviD · #6 04-14-2004, 09:47 AM

This is a tough hand to get away from here and depends heavily on UTG.

His limp re-raise is pretty suspicious and I usually see this from MP/LP players with Axs. UTG doing is may be representative of the table.

Is the table the type to fold to an early raise? If so, you must consider UTG may be limping with a solid starting hand to keep some action in, and one of the only hands to do this with is probably AA.

Is UTG the type of player to limp and then re-raise when its limited to HU?

Something that is immediately suspcious is the preflop limp, 3-bet and then check/calling the flop.

Players often do this when either they miss severely (i.e. the UTG limp, 3-bet was a HU aggressive play with a strong drawing hand but need some serious flop/turn help) or they flop a monster.

The turn check-raise is very suspcious and should ring out as either UTG just caught his draw (albeit doubtful as most aggressive players as UTG showed preflop would check raise this flop or come out betting it, then check raise the turn) or he indeed flopped a monster. If the turn helped him, the likely hand you can put him on is QQ.

Its also possible he is on AQo/AQs, but chances are he would come out betting the flop there.

Either way, you have to think along the lines of what hands he would play this way that you can beat.

The only way you can continue is if you know UTG is a consistent bluffer and aggressive player with frequently dominated hands. i.e. would he play JJ/TT/99 this way and use the turn flush card/board to scare you off? What about KQo/KQs?

Just some of the thoughts that run through my head here, but once you call the turn CR...you are committed to seeing it down IMO.

Not much you can do differently, other than fold to the turn CR...but again that depends highly on your UTG read. Some may consider it weak-tight to fold in that spot HU, but if UTG is a solid player...I may indeed fold there.

Louie Landale · #7 04-14-2004, 12:49 PM

That Qd was a disaster. The only hand you can now beat is KK. And this was your mistake: you see "Ace on board and I have AK" but didn't stop to consider how the 3 diamonds and the Q, combined with his call-re-raise strong hand PF, narrow his possible holdings pretty much to hands that cannot call or have you beat.

This is about as bad as it gets: someone with a known strong hand deliberately slow-plays AGAIN in a situation where they are confident YOU have a good hand AND could have outdrawn them. AJ? I don't think so. Gambling with the red KsKd is possible but unlikely.

While you should rarely fold strong hands in big pots heads-up, I'd say this was an exception. Fold to the turn raise unless he's particularly aggressive or tricky.

- Louie

PS. You should be suspicious on the flop when he fails to auto-bet after 3-betting PF. On the turn you are either way ahead or way behind; I'd check the turn figuring to snag a river bluff.

Good thing he didn't check-raise the river.

TimM · #8 04-14-2004, 02:26 PM

It's hard for me to change gears and get suspicious sometimes. I snap off so many bizarre bluffs in these games already. If he had checked the river I would have no problem just checking behind though.

AceHigh · #9 04-14-2004, 07:42 PM

When an unknown player limps/reraises from early position and then checks the flop, this should kick off alarms in your head. Since I caught good on the flop my goal would be to get to a showdown cheap and hope my opponent has KK.

I'd turn turtle, check the flop and go into check/call mode. Once I knew the player I might play it differently.