Planning the Ultimate Low-Limit Vegas Trip

[WLC4Ever]

I'm going on a trip to Vegas with a couple of buddies over the Memorial Day weekend. We're staying from Thursday night until Sunday at Treasure Island. I've been there a couple of times but not since I discovered online hold 'em. I want to make the transition smooth so I had a bunch of questions I wanted to run by the veterans:

1.) I currently play .25/.50 and .50/1 on UltimateBet.com. I have heard that Vegas LL tables are very loose and I wanted to know what the equivalent games would be in Vegas.

2.)What kind of bankroll should I bring for those games, both per session and overall?

3.)Any tips or rules I should know about? For example, tipping dealers?

4.)I assume I should plan on playing all night rather than during the day to hit up all the drunks, am I on the right track? What's the best time to play?

5.)What is the tournament situation for someone playing at my stakes? Anything worth entering that I wouldn't be out of in 10 minutes? I occasionally play $5 NL: games at UB.

6.) General play advice? Play tighter, looser than normal?

Thanks

[neotope]

I made my first trip to a casino this week to play poker, previously I was just playing online and in home games. I went to Foxwoods so I can't really speak of Vegas but my general advice should hold true.

The lowest game that Foxwoods spreads for Hold'em is 2/4 and even though I usually play .50/1 on Party I was not overly worried about playing 2/4. I bought in for half a rack of $2 chips which was $100. Most of the people at my table had less than $100 while only 1 or 2 had about $150. The minimum buy-in for the game was $20 but that would have been too little.

The game I was in was very loose. It was not rare for 9 players to see the flop and I would say the table averaged at 6-7+ seeing the flop. The one thing I noticed is that once someone put in $2 pre-flop they would be determined to see the flop regardless of whether or not the betting was capped. I saw numerous times when people would put $8 in pre-flop and then fold to a $2 bet on the flop.

I think one thing I can recommend is to never try to bluff. So many people in my game where playing a lot of hands that it got hard to tell what they were holding. Even if you think they might have something bad it is sometimes hard to tell so I would just avoid bluffing.

I started out the session taking a full house on the first hand that I saw the flop and then I got loose for an orbit or two. I looked down and saw that I was back to about $100 so I decided to start playing better. I ended up $48 in 3 hours which I considered a great job for my first real casino action.

I think that tighter play is good and when you have something don't be afraid to bet and reraise. Also because a lot of people played a lot of hands it was not rare for the flop to be checked around. Because of this I usually avoided a check raise because whenever I tried it nobody would bet for me to raise.

[lefty rosen]

From my experiences on low limit tables being the table captain can help, but trying to make fancy moves is out of the question as the average player is pretty much clueless (except for the good players). I basically stopped playing those monkey games live because my blood pressure would raise if a guy chased a turn gutshot on raise and caught or backdoor flush on a raise and caught(without anything close to pot odds).

[M.B.E.]

Here's a thread that may be helpful:

http://forumserver.twoplustwo.com/sh...;Number=627177

Also you can use the search function (above) to find various threads discussing your questions. Probably best to restrict your search to this forum (brick & mortar). Use search terms "Vegas", "tipping", etc.

[westmt01]

It sounds like you're going to want to start with the Excalibur. They have 1/3 and 2/6 spread limit games that are even easier to beat than most .50/1 internet games. Mirage spreads a pretty decent 3/6 game, which I'd say is about equivilent to 1/2 on Paradise. I found both places fairly soft day and evening.

[roGER]

I take a lot of flack for this view, but I'm 100% sure that internet poker games are far tougher than standard low-limit games in real casinos.

Maybe it's because I'm in England, and therefore play Party and similar sites when they are relatively quiet and the fish aren't around. Whatever, even playing very low limits on-line, it's not uncommon to see everyone fold before the flop and the blinds have to slug it out with each other.

The great news for you is I've NEVER seen this sort of thing happen in a "live" game played at 10-20 or below. It's hard to describe just how dismal most real-life low-limit players are, even in Las Vegas where the games are supposed to be tougher than average.

So... You play tighter than anyone else at the table, but you will still play a lot of hands out of position, as you'll be certain that many players are going to call to see the flop. Specifically, you can play any Ace-suited from under the gun, any two suited connectors, and any pair, and hands like T,9 and JT off-suit. You won't be playing hands like KJ or AT off-suit, as these don't do well in multiple player pots.

Your strategy is simple and very boring - if the flop fits you play the hand, if it misses you then you get out and wait for the next hand. Don't ever bluff, because some brain-dead turd with a pair of 2's will always call you, if only out of curiosity. Any hand-reading skills you've got are useless, since the players will be playing virtually anything - any two suited cards, Ax, Kx, Qx, and an amazing and insane variety in-between.

Only one read is generally reliable - if some old fart-bag of a calling-station suddenly bets when the third flush card appears, they've got a flush, generally Jack high or lower. Unless you have trips or higher flush, you must fold - someone else will pay them off and keep them honest.

Use the free-card play with your draws, as lots of low-limit players always check to the better/raiser. Sometimes you can check-raise to thin out the field a little.

Its boring dull mechanical poker, not unlike playing Blackjack basic strategy. But it works.

Compared to internet poker, you'll be stupified by how slow the games are - if you manage 30 hands an hour you'll be doing quite well. On the other hand, there's lots to observe.

Play anywhere you like but stick to limits below 10-20 - the fluctuations at low limit games with many players can be huge, since you'll contest large pots, often with people pulling to 2 to 6 outer long-shots on the river. As you are just there for the week-end yopu won't have much chance of getting into the long run, so your results will vary greatly depending on whether you win or lose a few big pots.

The best time to play is in the evenings, as the games are tighter in the mornings, but even those are very beatable.

I dunno how much bank-roll you have, but if you intend to play 3-6, or 4-8 you'll want between $500 and a grand for peace of mind. That's assuming you cram a fair bit of poker into your week-end. If you only intend to play for a few hours, then you could go with as little as 300 bucks, although I wouldn't recommend it.

Mentally prepare yourself for the fact that you WILL suffer some bad-beats, and it will seem your opponents are getting more than their fair share of luck. Also prepare yourself to hear some of the dullest comments ever made, by really stupid people. Don't enlighten them, and don't get angry with them or yourself when their miracle draws get there - it's a sign you are playing well and they are having to get very lucky.

Sorry but I'm clueless about tournaments - they are something of a crap shoot at the best of times, and I suspect low buy-in tournaments are even more of a crap shoot than most.

Have a great time frying the fish!

- roGER

[pudley4]

[ QUOTE ]
I take a lot of flack for this view, but I'm 100% sure that internet poker games are far tougher than standard low-limit games in real casinos

[/ QUOTE ]

I'm not sure who you take flak from, since it's almost universally agreed (on these forums) that this statement is true (when referring to games at the same limits).

[westmt01]

I agree also. I've been playing online for over a year, but just recently had my first casino poker experience. I though casino poker was a lot easier to beat, though there are a few sites (Pacific springs to mind) where it seems like there's a donater at every table. I only play low limit, so I suppose it might be different at the higher limits.

[nolanfan34]

I was in the exact same situation a few weeks ago - going to Vegas, but for the first time since I started playing some poker online.

And honestly, I don't consider myself a great player yet, but I have read many of the classic instruction books, Sklansky, Brunson, etc, and I was shocked how easy the competition was.

My friends and I ended up playing at the Flamingo. They were running $2/$4 and $4/$8 games. The head person in the poker room said they run the $2/$4 just about 24/7. I bought in for $70, which is a little on the low end. I would buy in for at LEAST $100 if possible. But at any given time, it was quickly clear that about half the table didn't really know what they were doing. I basically played fairly tight, and patiently. I just pushed my big hands when I got them. I ended up cashing out $145 after about 3 1/2 hours, so I was very happy with that.

I would echo the comments above - don't bluff. You will always get called by someone. You can employ a little strategy against people who are paying attention and solid players, semi-bluffs, check-raises, etc, but against the calling stations, it just doesn't matter because they're not going to notice.

My last bit of advice is to avoid the urge to start playing a lot of pots. It's tough when the pot is unraised, and that Q-10 is looking good from MP, but it will cut into your stack quickly.

As for tipping, I tipped a buck for each time I won, which was about 4 or 5 pots. That seemed to be a good amount.

One last thing, a nice bonus at the Flamingo, they pay out a bonus for the top-two hands of the day. During our time there, one of my friends made a queen-high straight flush, which turned out to be the #2 highest hand of the day, and he won a $650 bonus! Not bad for a $2/$4 game!

Have fun though, it is a blast, and if you've done OK online at all, $2/$4 and even $4/$8 will be no problem for you.

[westmt01]

I think Nolanfan sums it up very nicely: don't bluff, play smart, and most of all have fun, becuase it really is a blast. And it can be a very profitable blast as well!