Playing back at the maniac?

[Position]

So, I'm checking out the new 6max Partys.

Big question: How specifically to challenge a successful table bully??

5-handed at the moment: 3 very conservative patient players ('weak tight'), one maniac who's been very very successful bullying these guys.

I now have $53. Maniac has $170. Blinds are only 0.25 & 0.50. (This is a '$25NL' table, showing how successful the $170 Maniac has been against these guys. I've been here only about 20 hands, and the lineup hasn't changed.)

Maniac is now raising around 90% of hands to $4 (8x big blind); the rest he just folds. He is picking up the blinds maybe 80% of these hands; it's amazing. He's usually picking up the pot with a pot-sized bet on any flop he sees.

I haven't seen much later action in hands yet -- other than the one where I flopped a set (I'd just called with 88 preflop) & got all-in on the turn to double up. So, and this is key, I have no good read of how often he'll fire a second barrel etc against a stack anything like my current size.

I'm in the big blind. Maniac opens standard 8x (as per 90% of hands). Folded around to me.

I hold AJo. Your best move? Your best plan? It's a $4 bet into a $53 stack -- with essentially two random cards & with no read on how much more he'll bluff throughout any hand.


In the actual hand, I coldcalled (like I had with the 88), didn't like the flop (Q96), and folded to the pot bet on teh flop. Was tempted to make it $12 or $15 to go preflop -- but felt I'd rather let him (make him) keep the initiative & then I'd checkraise big if an A or J fell (maybe all-in, since I can't see folding a good flop -- but I hate giving him such big implied odds if he happened to flop better...).

It's hard to play without any reads!

[SpaceAce]

I think the time to play back at him is pre-flop when your hand is probably still best. AJ is a lot better than what is raising with in most cases if he is raising 90% of hands. If you keep just calling his $4 raises and folding when you miss, you're going to go broke in a big hurry.

SpaceAce

[mauisupaman]

I agree with Space - you have to play back at him preflop especially if he's reaising 9/10 hands. AJo is going to be a favorite here most of the time. And if you don't raise preflop, you'll be lost on the flop.

[Position]

So let's say I make it $14 to go preflop...and he pushes all-in right there.

Fold? (And wait for a better opportunity, but now with only $40 in my stack & unable to reload since it's $25Max!?) Or call? (And take the worst of it if he has an even half-legitimate rereraise hand this first time?)

I just-called here to avoid facing that hard decision -- but I do agree that I have to put *him* to a hard decision most of the time.

You're surely right that a reraise preflop is best. It's just annoying when I know I can't rebuy if I lose an all-in here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[PokerSlut]

If you never raise him preflop, how do you know he'd put you all in? I'd raise every hand, too, if I knew I was up against such a weak bunch of players. It's guaranteed to make money.

[SpaceAce]

[ QUOTE ]

So let's say I make it $14 to go preflop...and he pushes all-in right there.

Fold? (And wait for a better opportunity, but now with only $40 in my stack & unable to reload since it's $25Max!?) Or call? (And take the worst of it if he has an even half-legitimate rereraise hand this first time?)

I just-called here to avoid facing that hard decision -- but I do agree that I have to put *him* to a hard decision most of the time.

You're surely right that a reraise preflop is best. It's just annoying when I know I can't rebuy if I lose an all-in here [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

[/ QUOTE ]

He's been consistently raising 90% of hands. If he pushes in over my reraise and I haven't seen him do that before, I take my chances and call. For one thing, you need to make a stand; if you reraise and fold to his push, he's going to bully you around until one of you leaves the table. For another thing, your AJ has a very good chance of being the best hand. He's raising, raising, raising, raising which means he is raising with total crap most of the time so AJ looks pretty good.

If you want to lay low and wait for AK or better, OK, but don't get in the habit of calling his raises with mediocre hands like AJ (which is actually probably better than mediocre against his likely holdings). Either put him to the test or chuck the hand. That's my opinion, anyway, because I think you will do yourself no good calling off 10% of your stack every time you want to see a flop only to have to fold when it misses you. You're not going to get in cheap with this joker raising everything so fight back.

SpaceAce

[Position]

Heh, point taken. I defensively want to say that I had a more aggro strategy planned than I've laid out here -- e.g., I was ready to raise many flops with the 88 even if hadn't spiked a set.

I have two big questions about the initial probes against the preflop maniac: 1) To play back preflop, on a first flop, or on a first decent flop? 2) How much to keep overplaying my first decent hand (maybe by going all-in with these short stacks) if he doesn't give up after my first raise?

I'd chosen to wait for some fairly legitimate hand values -- to avoid deciding whether to push with high-cards-no-pair.

My biggest fear with reraising AJo preflop was not even his immediate all-in (which would have been an easy if annoyingly high-variance call) -- but rather his smooth call & then my missed flop (as happens 2/3 of the time). At that point, the pot would be $28 & I'd have $40 left. Do I push, check & fold, or check & call/raise-all-in? What would you do in that case?

[Position]

[ QUOTE ]
If he pushes in over my reraise and I haven't seen him do that before, I take my chances and call. For one thing, you need to make a stand; if you reraise and fold to his push, he's going to bully you around until one of you leaves the table. For another thing, your AJ has a very good chance of being the best hand. He's raising, raising, raising, raising which means he is raising with total crap most of the time so AJ looks pretty good.

[/ QUOTE ]

Very cool. I understand & completely agree.

Thanks!