AA Hand

Jah Red · #1 04-06-2004, 09:52 AM

Long time member...much too infrequent poster. (It is my new years resolution to post more...I'm a procrastinator)

Paradise Poker 1/2 Hold'em (8 handed) converter

Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

Flop: (12 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

Turn: (15 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

River: (27 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, CO raises, Hero folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.

Final Pot: 32 BB
Main Pot: 32 BB, between MP1 and CO.

What do y'all think of my turn play?
How 'bout this laydown?

I failed to mention that this was my 2nd hand at this table...so no reads.

Warik · #2 04-06-2004, 11:29 AM

[ QUOTE ]
Preflop: Hero is SB with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], A[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img].
UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 folds, CO calls, Button folds, Hero raises, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have aces, so you raise - good.

[ QUOTE ]
Flop: (12 SB) 4[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB raises, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO 3-bets, Hero caps, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

[/ QUOTE ]

You have top overpair on a rainbow board, so you cap - good.

[ QUOTE ]
Turn: (15 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero bets, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, CO raises, Hero calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls.

What do y'all think of my turn play?

[/ QUOTE ]

CO keeps firing away even though you capped the flop and raised preflop. Did he flop a set? A junky two-pair? Does he also have an overpair? My best guess here is that he's either got TT and flopped a set (I would have raised TT from CO... so this all depends on his standards) or maybe he was playing T9s from the CO and flopped top two pair.

Either way, I'd call this raise as well because I can't think of any hand that, when limped in from the CO, would warrant all of this aggression that you can still beat... but I wouldn't fold top overpair on this turn.

[ QUOTE ]
River: (27 BB) 7[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] (6 players)
Hero checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, MP1 calls, CO raises, Hero folds, BB folds, UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, MP1 calls.Final Pot: 32 BB
Main Pot: 32 BB, between MP1 and CO.

How 'bout this laydown?

[/ QUOTE ]

awful awful awful... this is a gargantuan pot. You are getting 15:1 on the cold-call and you can be fairly sure that UTG is not going to re-raise this. I would call here every time because the pot is so huge. If you were going to call the raise on the turn, what hand could he possibly have that the 7 would improve besides 86 or J8 that almost nobody would limp with from UTG?

arkady · #3 04-06-2004, 11:44 AM

failing to see the rationale behind folding on the river? look how big the pot is? the board didnt exactly improve for anyone and since you were in the raising war with the CO that means you felt you could have beaten him with out improving...just doesn't make sense.

Jah Red · #4 04-06-2004, 02:40 PM

So the point here is throw in those 2, possibly 4 BB even though I was convinced that I was beaten by 1 maybe both UTG+1 and CO. The CO was screaming set when I cap and lead and he raises me and UTG+1's bet on the river may have been a stab at the pot but could have been that he made his OESD (playing 56sooted from UTG+1 not out of the realm of possibility)

This was my thinking so I don't think the laydown was that bad. Isn't the point of trying to put you opponents on a hand to save $$ when your beat and maximize $$ when you are ahead?

Anyway...thanks for the critique.

Warik · #5 04-06-2004, 03:04 PM

[ QUOTE ]
So the point here is throw in those 2, possibly 4 BB even though I was convinced that I was beaten by 1 maybe both UTG+1 and CO.

[/ QUOTE ]

Not 4 BB - only two BB. MP1 and UTG+1 have been calling stations the whole hand and this river isn't going to change that.

If you are convinced that you are beaten at any given time in the hand... CONVINCED 100%, you should fold. Why call the turn raise? If you are convinced that you're beat on the turn, why stay to the river?

[ QUOTE ]
The CO was screaming set when I cap and lead and he raises me and UTG+1's bet on the river may have been a stab at the pot but could have been that he made his OESD (playing 56sooted from UTG+1 not out of the realm of possibility)

[/ QUOTE ]

Not out of the realm of possibility but it is out of the realm of likelihood. Besides, anybody who'd play 56s from UTG+1 is likely not the type to valuebet his draw.

Also, low limit party is a haven for slowplay flop, raise the turn type set playing. If one of your opponents flopped a set, he would likely have waited until the turn to raise it, not explode from the flop.

[ QUOTE ]
This was my thinking so I don't think the laydown was that bad. Isn't the point of trying to put you opponents on a hand to save $$ when your beat and maximize $$ when you are ahead?

[/ QUOTE ]

Yes it is, but you cannot ignore the size of the pot. There are 30 BBs in the pot by the time it gets to you. You're getting 15:1 on your call. You don't need to be correct very many times for this call to be profitable.

I am not saying that you would have won or lost this pot. It's very possible that you did lose and would lose the next 5 times in this situation... but I still think calling is the correct play.

What did your opponents have?

Jah Red · #6 04-06-2004, 03:22 PM

CO indeed had 10s and UTG+1 had some unbelievable garbage.

The reason I call the turn raise is because the pot is big, I am pretty sure I know what he has so if I spike the A on the river I'm good, unimproved, I'm gone.

I appreciate the help. Made the right choice on this one but will give it a second thought next time.

Glurfle · #7 04-07-2004, 06:31 AM

I think the fold is fine. Board didn't pair, didn't hit an A on the river - at some point you have to recognize that your overpair is no good. Unless CO is the type who will raise the turn with AT after getting it capped on the flop, there's pretty much no chance that your aces are good on the end. My default is to assume that they're sane until proven otherwise, so I call the turn raise hoping I'm against two pair and have a reasonable number of outs. I wouldn't be surprised if UTG+1 had you beat as well.

As a side note, Warik, I think you call too much on the end. Odds only go so far - there's a lot of situations where you've got a lot less than a 5% chance of being good. I'm thinking in particular of a pot we played a few days ago where you caught bottom pair on the river while drawing to a flush and paid me off.