20-40 live game K-Q bet or check this flop?

[ineedmoneybad]

20-40 live game I raise in middle position with k [img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img]Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] after 1 early caller. Both blinds call. 4 see the flop. 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]3 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]4 [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img]. Checked to me. Check or bet here?

Results: I had been losing and felt a bet here was going to get called or maybey check raised. I checked hoping to catch a K or Q, turn paired the 4 bb bet and everyone folded. Thinking the hand over I feel a bet could have been better here but not sure. What do you guys think?

[haakee]

I'll bet here every time. Getting called is fine and is more likely to mean an ace than a pair.

[astroglide]

i bet if i have the gumption to bet the turn and the river, otherwise i check. people will call the flop with an ace, people will call the turn with an ace, and people with an ace will win if you check the river unimproved. kq is defaulted to my "bet unimproved" hand.

i win in your specific sample a lot of the time to 3 consecutive bets ( presumably against ace high) often enough for me to notice it. it can give me more action with made hands (e.g. AK raising, hitting, and betting the whole way) in instances where people may have folded the river because they expect me to have checked if i whiffed.

[DocHollyday]

Hey moneyman,

This is an almost automatic bet for me. Most time you'll get called and checked to again on the turn (of course it always depends on the competition, if it is a wild/loose game with lots of check-raising and stuff, I'd consider checking and folding the turn if bet to). However, I assume a typical 20/40 live game, so I bet the flop and if I don't improve and it's getting checked to me on the turn, I will gladly take the freecard, especially if everyone stays in on my flop bet. If it gets heads up I may bet the turn again, depending on my opponent.

However, considering the various factors, which make almost every situation unique, there's seldom a clear answer, I think the general advice I can give you is, that when you showed strength preflop, you shouldn't wimp instantly when you miss the flop. But I'm just another wanna-be! [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[SinCityGuy]

[ QUOTE ]
i bet if i have the gumption to bet the turn and the river, otherwise i check. people will call the flop with an ace, people will call the turn with an ace, and people with an ace will win if you check the river unimproved. kq is defaulted to my "bet unimproved" hand.

[/ QUOTE ]

Interesting analysis. Let's take it a step further, and say you have AK. You bet the flop and the turn, losing one of the callers. The river is another blank. Your lone opponent checks. I say take the free showdown. 99% of the time, they've put you on AK, and they'll call if they have any piece of the board. If you want to make your opponent feel good about what a fine read he made, go ahead and fire another shot.

[elysium]

hi ineed
fold pre-flop.

[astroglide]

[ QUOTE ]
Interesting analysis. Let's take it a step further, and say you have AK. You bet the flop and the turn, losing one of the callers. The river is another blank. Your lone opponent checks. I say take the free showdown. 99% of the time, they've put you on AK, and they'll call if they have any piece of the board. If you want to make your opponent feel good about what a fine read he made, go ahead and fire another shot.

[/ QUOTE ]

i was discussing KQ, not AK. AK has much greater showdown value, and i never stated anything about betting it unimproved. so please don't include me - "let's take it a step further" should be "i'll take it a step further"

[mark c.]

I frequently see this same live 20-40 game down in tunica.
Chumps that won't give up the blinds.
I see players calling down 3rd and 4th pair every hand.
Jan Fisher in cardplayer even wrote about my regular tunica games recently. She calls it a game too good to beat.
It depends on the table----I've played the situation both ways. Most of the time it's automatic that I bet.
The plus to betting----taking the pot on the flop---You can adjust accordingly on the turn.

[nykenny]

[ QUOTE ]
I'll bet here every time. Getting called is fine and is more likely to mean an ace than a pair.

[/ QUOTE ]
why is getting called by A high so great here? what do u do if 2 called and turn blank for u again?

if u chk here then they fire a blind shot on the river, then what?

Kenny

[Gamblor]

in MP with one limper? That's an auto-limp behind.

Especially in late middle. If he's a total goofball, I'd raise and hope to get heads up or have a blind come along so I have a pseudobutton.

Do you think KQo is not +EV in this spot?

What hands would you play in this spot?