Omaha Danglers

[pokeryogi]

I was thinking about the dangler concept and the idea of if it's suited then it's not really a
dangler, but....check out these 2 starting hands

K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]
vs.
K [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q [img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] 2 [img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img]

The duece suits the K which is what the J does in hand 2. There essentially the same
hand, right?

Thanks for any comments

[Gewurtztraminer]

I am pretty new to Omaha 8, but one minor advantage that I can see with the first hand, is that it opens the possibility that the J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is in someone elses hand.

If a backdoor [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] flush appears, an opponent might be tempted to call or even raise with it.

This might make it more valuable than the straight flush possibilities the second hand presents.

Gewürtztraminer

[Buzz]

Pokeryogi - .

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] is a poor starting hand.

Having a suited king does add some value over a rainbow hand, but not enough. The deuce is still a dangler.

The deuce doesn't go with the king, queen, or jack to make straights. When you use the deuce to make a full house, an opponent often makes a better full house. When you use the deuce to make three of a kind an opponent often makes a better three of a kind - and when an opponent has a deuce and also makes three of a kind, that opponent will somehow usually have an ace that will out-kick your king.

To put it into perspective, wouldn't yu rather hold

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] ?

Replace the deuce with a ten and you have a decent, but still not great, starting hand.

Buzz

[Zeno]

Danglers are dangerous. You really only have a 3-card hand with both of your examples. The deuce suited with the king is just enough to convince some people that they have a playable hand. This is not so. Especially in a full game.

The only time to play these hands is for free in the BB, otherwise toss them away and wait for something decent. You can end up trapping yourself by playing hands in your example. Buzz covered that really well.

-Zeno

[Phat Mack]

The duece suits the K which is what the J does in hand 2. There essentially the same hand, right?

Right. But change it to K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img]....no dangler.

(Buzz is right about the hand being a dog, [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] )

[Gewurtztraminer]

I was going to mention something similar, I would only play either of the two out of the blinds in an unraised pot, and hope the flop hits me hard.

Thankfully, there are opponents who consider this a hand worthy of a raise (or else the tournaments I play are populated by maniacs).

Gewürtztraminer

[crockpot]

they're virtually the same, but if you made me choose one of them i definitely take the first one. now the J [img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], a good card for me to catch and possibly hit a multiway hand on the flop, is in the deck.

honestly the hand is not worth playing to begin with, so the question is academic.

[chaos]

They are essentially the same bad unplayable hand.
I would not call a bet with either of them.

[Big Dave D]

"Replace the deuce with a ten and you have a decent, but still not great, starting hand. "

You mean limit Omaha 8b right?

This hand is a monster in PLO

[Buzz]

[ QUOTE ]
You mean limit Omaha 8b right?

[/ QUOTE ]

Hi Big Dave - I was thinking either limit-Omaha-8 or limit-Omaha-high.

[ QUOTE ]
This hand is a monster in PLO

[/ QUOTE ]

If you say so. You're the one who plays the game. I'd rather have

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] T[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] than

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] but I'd rather have

K[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] J[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] A[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] than either one of them. I like suited aces much better than suited kings. - And then I'd rather have that hand double suited than single suited. Aren't suited aces better than suited kings in PLO? Aren't double suited hands better than single suited hands in PLO?

What are your requirements for a "monster" in PLO? I think TJQKs is very playable.... but a monster??

Buzz