can anyone explain this 15/30 Party hand for me?

legend42 · #1 03-13-2004, 07:47 PM

Party Poker 15/30 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Antihero is MP3 with K[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img], K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img].
UTG raises, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 calls, Antihero 3-bets, CO folds, Button folds, SB calls, BB calls, UTG calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (21 SB) 2[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 4[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], 9[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (7 players)
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, UTG+1 bets, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls, Antihero raises, SB folds, BB calls, UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 calls.

Turn: (15.50 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] (5 players)
BB checks, UTG+1 checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 checks, Antihero bets, BB calls, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 calls, MP2 raises, Antihero calls, BB calls, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 calls.

River: (24.50 BB) 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] (4 players)
BB checks, UTG+2 checks, MP2 bets, Antihero calls, BB folds, UTG+2 folds.

Final Pot: 26.50 BB
Main Pot: 26.50 BB, between MP2 and Antihero. > Pot won by MP2 (26.50 BB).

Results in white below: 
MP2 shows 6d 7d (straight, nine high).
Antihero shows Kd Kc (one pair, kings).
Outcome: MP2 wins 26.50 BB. 

---------------------------

This is not a bad beat whine. I had a good run at this table, but what happened with this one?

7 see the flop for three bets. A flop so raggy you could wipe your counters with it, yet 5 see go to the turn for 2 bets? No diamonds & not even a gutshot draw on the flop for MP2, but he hangs around and then CHECK RAISES the turn with his open ended draw. Seriously, anyone?

Enon · #2 03-13-2004, 09:27 PM

Oh my! [img]/images/graemlins/shocked.gif[/img] I really should start playing 15/30 again but even though I've been taking some bad beatings lately.

Thats pp for you.

What could be out there. I suspect many of the 15/30 fish like to stick around to the turn with their overcards and specifically with their underpairs.

shemp · #3 03-13-2004, 11:39 PM

[ QUOTE ]
This is not a bad beat whine.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually, it is. Tough break. It happens. Be thankful. No one cares.

astroglide · #4 03-14-2004, 12:41 AM

partypoker is the land of pot architects. the sufficient 4:1 was present on the turn...

mikelow · #5 03-14-2004, 01:45 AM

runner, runner. Just another suckout. Keep playing.

SA125 · #6 03-14-2004, 01:50 AM

Guys who swear by online play tell you to stop whining etc. With respect to their opinion, and I do respect it, my experience with online poker is exactly like your hand.

Players are constantly coming and going in and out of games with small bankrolls because they know that, unlike a casino, new players are always dealt a winner. Always. Frequently it's a ridiculous one like that.

I just got off $5-10 PokerStars 10 min ago. A maniac had been 3-4 betting anything and sucking out like mad. The chat box was rolling with "unbelievable etc.." It was so far from reality that I typed in the chat box "this looks fixed". Next hand the maniac cools it and I get a winner.

Then the madness starts again and after about 2 loops I type "this looks fishy". I then get 2 winners in a row. True story. As soon as I typed I won. Coincidence I guess.

I go to another table and see 2 players taking turns crushing the table, me included, with whatever is necessary. Backdoor gutshots to trips, backdoor flushes to straights and small pair boats to flushes. 2 players. No one else. Guys were losing with hands that flopped a monster and shouldn't have been called, let alone beat.

Now all of you who kill online, I believe it and respect it. But let me say this. I've been playing in AC for 10 yrs. I've seen the bottom of the barrel clueless and guys so sharp they almost cut the felt. The play is never as predicatably unbelievable as it is online. And I've never been dealt a winner right after wondering aloud how a maniac is steamrolling the table.

I don't know about Party $15-30, but PokerStars $5-10 is a mine field.

legend42 · #7 03-14-2004, 01:58 AM

[ QUOTE ]
partypoker is the land of pot architects. the sufficient 4:1 was present on the turn...

[/ QUOTE ]

Except it wasn't. He only got 3 callers. Plus, there's the chance that a couple of his outs aren't good, if somebody has picked up a backdoor flush draw. In fact, I think there's precisely the wrong number of players for this move. If there were only 2 others in, the slight chance that he might win without a showdown on the river (maybe the bettor has been severely overplaying AK, and the other player is on a draw, or will fold a small unimproved pair), considering the big pot, might make this move viable. Conversely, if there are 5 or 6 players haging around, then yes, he has odds. But with 4 players, and only 3 callers, I just don't see it.

Okay, this is sounding like a whine, and I guess it sort of is. But even if I had won this hand, or was out of the pot and just observing, I would still have the same amount of bafflement about it. I just started playing at Party a week ago, so maybe this kind of action is normal. And if it is, that's great. But I was just curious about it.

(BTW, my friend who looked at the hand said the guy with 76 must have misread the 2 on the flop as a 3, and I guess that is a possibility.)

Kenrick · #8 03-15-2004, 04:36 AM

[ QUOTE ]

Players are constantly coming and going in and out of games with small bankrolls because they know that, unlike a casino, new players are always dealt a winner. Always. Frequently it's a ridiculous one like that.

[/ QUOTE ]

So instead of reading the posts here every day to improve our games, all we have to do to become big winners is to constantly switch tables with a small stack like all those other people do?

My question is as ridiculous as the theory.

The main culprit is most likely simply the hands per hour and number of tables online. You can jump from table to table watching 50+ hands per hour; you're bound to see all sorts of stuff. When I play four tables at a time and get AA on two of them and KK on another all at the same time, do I think the games are rigged? No, because while it may be a rare occurrence, the sheer number of hands being played make it seem enough of a regular thing not to notice.

Poker books will tell you how rare it is to have a flop come all the same suit. If you play 200 hands per hour for eight hours a day, you'll see a same-suited flop so often it will seem commonplace. You'll also see person after person saying the same things you quoted in your post. With online play being almost twice as fast as B&M, maybe people are just more aware of when a person is on a hot streak and sucking out the table.

SA125 · #9 03-15-2004, 11:52 AM

SA125 Quote:
Players are constantly coming and going in and out of games with small bankrolls because they know that, unlike a casino, new players are always dealt a winner. Always. Frequently it's a ridiculous one like that.

Kenrick Quote:
"So instead of reading the posts here every day to improve our games, all we have to do to become big winners is to constantly switch tables with a small stack like all those other people do?
My question is as ridiculous as the theory."

I love when I respond to a post about a questionable play with an observation of mine and someone like my man Kenrick jumps up on the soapbox and twists it into a preztel. Magic, really.

He takes my observation of new players being dealt a crap hand, one hand, and sometimes playing it because it might their first winner and turns it into my theory of a winning system. Magic, really.

At what point did I suggest my observation will make you a big winner? Come on now. Who's being ridiculous here?

If you're going to take a serious tone and start throwing rocks, at least have your facts straight.

It's easy. Start by looking for the words "winning system, theory, will make you rich, etc."

WyattErb · #10 03-15-2004, 11:59 AM

man, i can totally understand what u r talking about! i had guys cold calling 3bets, when i had AA, and at the and they show me 85o and win the pot with a darn straight or 2 pair! u can be sure, even if those guys seem to win right now, they are all losing shitloads of money over the time!