Just finished TOP - Starting Super System

[OldLearner]

I purchased and read HPFAP and TPFAP about 4 months ago (been playing for about 25 years). I still need to go back and reread them since I flew through them pretty quickly.

I have read a few other texts that I found completely useless (Killer Poker Online was one).

I hadn't read TOP so I bought that about a month ago and just finished it. Undoubtedly the best book on poker that I have read to date!

Made me think about a lot of things that I have taken for granted and provided a lot more insight into a lot of things that I "kinda new" but didn't know why.

If you're like me and haven't read TOP, read it. I fully intend to read it again at some point.

I also purchased Reuben/Ciaffone's PL & NL Poker and Super System and started reading PL & NL Poker because it arrived before TOP, but put it down once TOP arrived.

I started into Super System last night (interesting Bio on Doyle) and I'm going to read it before I go back and finish PL & NL.

A quick question, Doyle refers to Super System as "7 courses" in one. Is it important to read it in the order it is written, or can I skip ahead to the NL section (since that is what I am most interested in right now), then read the other sections afterwards?

[krazyace5]

You don't have to read the sections in order, you don't even have to read all the sections. Just read the ones you are interested in. One thing though is some of Doyles NL stuff is geared toward big money NL. I am sure someone else can explain this more.

[OldLearner]

Thanks krazy. I skipped to the NL section once I got to the game sections.

I haven't got through much of it, but it's pretty amazing stuff. Doyle's strategy of pounding guy's over and over and accumulating small pots so that he can play big pots with a draw when he knows he's behind is kind of interesting.

Intuitively, you might think this was crazy. Why piss away all the accumulated small pot money by playing a big pot when behind.

You would cretainly lose most of the money you won buying small pots in the big pots where you are a dog, but you would then get the action in the big pots where you are a favorite that makes you the real big money.

Pure FTOP...no chance his opponents have of knowing what he has, plus the added fear of having to play for your stack all the time.

I would like to read about what playing against Doyle was like, how good players adjusted to his play.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
A quick question, Doyle refers to Super System as "7 courses" in one. Is it important to read it in the order it is written, or can I skip ahead to the NL section (since that is what I am most interested in right now), then read the other sections afterwards?

[/ QUOTE ]

The best chapters with regards to games played today are the NL section and the 7-stud section. The rest are either games that just don't get played anymore outside of home games (Draw, Hi/Lo without a qualifier) or deal with outdated structures (Limit Hold'em).

Also be careful trying to apply Doyle's NL strategys to online NL games, the stacks are too shallow and the players are too loose for his ultra-aggressive style to be successful.

[VegasPokerBoy]

I hope not to tick anyone off seeing this is my first post on this site. I have read Super System many times over. I think it is a great book for historical purposes. But if you want sound strategy for no-limit hold 'em I don't think Doyle is the man to give it. I respect the mans game tremendously but when he starts to talk about ESP he loses me. I understand his winning alot of small pots to pay for a big pot when he needs to get lucky. He will get paid off later when he has a big hand already and the sucker thinks he is "gambling" and I believe that is his point there. But I think this isn't a good strategy for anyone new to no-limit hold 'em. Doyle is respected by all knowledgeable players. He strikes fear into the hearts of some of the best players out there so his stategies might work well for him. But for Joe Blow from Indiana these stategies won't work the way they do for a poker ledgend.

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi VegasPokerBoy:

Just so you know that everyone here won't get mad at you, I happen to agree with everything you said.

Best wishes,
Mason

[Robk]

Got to disagree here. Doyle definitely wrote some things that I don't agree with but his strategy is essentially correct in my mind. Look over Zee's advice for example, you will be surprised how similar it often sounds to Doyle. You may be missing some of the conditions that Doyle puts on his plays. For instance, you wrote

[ QUOTE ]
But for Joe Blow from Indiana these stategies won't work the way they do for a poker ledgend.

[/ QUOTE ]

But Doyle is very explicit that the advice he gives is how he would play against a good player. I don't know if Joe Blow from Indiana is playing against people Doyle would think of as "good". He gives a few pages on how to play against lesser competition, but it isn't the focus of the book. (And honestly there isn't much to be said about beating bad players at NLHE.)

[Mason Malmuth]

Hi Robk:

[ QUOTE ]
(And honestly there isn't much to be said about beating bad players at NLHE.)

[/ QUOTE ]

That's a great point. It's also the reason why I don't think all these no limit ring games have a lot of staying power. Of course they may be good for while.

Best wishes,
Mason

[King Yao]

The San Jose / San Francisco area seems to have a strong group of No Limit Hold'em players that have been keeping their games going for several years. Maybe its just a regional thing with several solid players who don't mind playing even when the game is not good. That would give it a chance for survival.

[Hallett]

I ordered both books from Amazon last week (sorry 2+2, Amazon.ca gives me a fantastic price, and free shipping) and am looking forward to the both, but SSystem I expect to be more for historical value. HEPFAP is fantastic.

I can't wait!!!!