FPS here on my part, or a good time to slowplay?

[JudgeRW]

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold'em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with A[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 calls, UTG+2 folds, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero raises, CO folds, Button calls, SB folds, BB folds, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls.

Flop: (11.50 SB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 calls, MP2 calls, Hero calls.

Turn: (8.25 BB) 3[img]/images/graemlins/diamond.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(5 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, MP1 checks, MP2 checks, Hero checks, Button bets, UTG+1 calls, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, Hero raises, Button calls, UTG+1 calls.

River: (14.25 BB) K[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
UTG+1 checks, Hero bets, Button calls $0.50 (All-In), UTG+1 calls.

Final Pot: 16.75 BB

[Henke]

If you knew that the button would bet the flop here, it's a good play, otherwise I think it's a loosing play. If the flop would have come 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] Q[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img] things would be different.

[XPac]

I think I agree with your play here. The only part I might do differently (depending upon the players at the table) is check-raise the flop to punish the flush draw-ers. Of course with that beautiful turn card, in this case it didn't make much difference and you were able to raise for two BB instead of two SB.

[Rico Suave]

Hey Judge:

On the flop, I would bet in your position. I am not a big fan of slowplaying this...the pot is large, there are 2 clubs on the board....play aggressively. Keep in mind, people won't put you on a Q just because you bet the flop...you raised preflop and they expect you to bet. If you get check raised, then great! You can then decide whether to 3-bet or c/r the turn. But I think you are losing too much if you let the flop get check through.

Since the button bet for you, go ahead raise and collect the extra sb from all those players trapped between you.

--Rico

[kiemo]

You are letting flush draws come with you on the flop for very cheap.

Had the 3 not paired up on the turn, your check there would be bad also.

Slowplaying sets is generally a bad idea at low limits with 2 suited on the board and many players still in.

[JudgeRW]

I agree, which is what inspired me to post. I think I tried to get too fancy. My thinking was that I would wait until the turn to do the check-raise, and hopefully trap some for the BB. But giving the flush draw a free card is trips suicide, and I know better. Thanks for the posts.

[sfer]

You weren't too fancy. If you have a 4-flush on a paired flop would you fold for 2 bets in an 11 SB pot? 1 bet? You'll never get the flush draws to fold. Your flop play is fine.

What you're hoping to do is induce a bet from your right on the turn so if a scary card doesn't fall you can raise and make it two bets to the field. Then you've got two things happening. One, you kept the pot small on the flop and, two, you were able to make it two bets to everyone so hopefully they're incorrectly drawing to their flushes.

Now the turn made that irrelevant. I like your play on all streets.

[Henke]

Slowplaying is seldomly correct at the low limits simply because often you make more money by not slowplaying. Many opponents expect you to wait until the turn to raise with trips, because it's the standard play by most players at lower limits. If you instead bet the flop, they might think you don't have the goods! Sort of like the inverse of slowplaying [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img]

If you have a 4-flush on a paired flop would you fold for 2 bets in an 11 SB pot? 1 bet? You'll never get the flush draws to fold. Your flop play is fine.

You won't get the flushdraw to fold, and that's why you don't want to confront the bunch with two bets here. If you bet, most low limit opponents will call here with a backdoor flush, backdoor str8, an A, a K or with nothing simply because they don't want you to bluff them! Look at what happened here, button bet and EVERYONE called. Thus, if you don't know that the button will bet, you might loose 4 small bets compared to betting.

If you check and it gets checked behind you, then you're going to face a difficult decision on the turn. Let's say MP2 would then take a stab at the pot. Do you raise and drive everyone out? Or just call, and make them call the same amount that they would have if you had bet the flop?

[sfer]

I'm not talking specifically about slowplaying a monster. I'm talking about manipulating the pot size so that you make the draws call incorrectly.

The flush draws probably aren't folding the flop/turn, but by making it two bets on a 5-8 BB pot on the turn, you've forced them to call incorrectly. Now you want them to call because they're paying 2 BBs on a smaller pot for a draw that gets there slightly more than once every four attempts. Now you profit from their calls. On the flop, they're correctly calling to draw.

The only difference here, now that I think about it, you can improve to a hand that beats a flush. So, I change my mind. Bet this flop. But if the flop were Q, blank, blank, two clubs, I stand by my earlier post.

[Henke]

I'm not talking specifically about slowplaying a monster. I'm talking about manipulating the pot size so that you make the draws call incorrectly.

You cannot do that here. Even if there's no bet on the flop, mp2 would bet and you raise, the next player to act is getting 4.375:1. And even if you could drive down the odds enough, you still make more money from those having 1-2 outs and call your flop bet. Their money is shared between you and the possible flushdraw, and you get most of it!