Trash hand from BB

[Henke]

Returned to party after some brief visits at Paradise and TGC. Man, I forgot how good these games where [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img] Anyway, what do you think of this play? Good? Bad? Ugly? Standard?

Party Poker 0.50/1 Hold 'Em (10 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with 8[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img], 6[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img].
UTG folds, UTG+1 folds, UTG+2 folds, MP1 folds, MP2 folds, MP3 calls, CO folds, Button folds, SB completes, Hero checks.

Flop: (3 SB) J[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 8[img]/images/graemlins/heart.gif[/img], 3[img]/images/graemlins/spade.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB checks, Hero checks, MP3 checks.

Turn: (1.5 BB) 5[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(3 players)</font>
SB bets, Hero raises, MP3 calls, SB folds.

River: (6.5 BB) A[img]/images/graemlins/club.gif[/img] <font color="blue">(2 players)</font>
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Final Pot: 8.5 BB

[Brian]

Hi Henke,

I'd bet the Flop. If you check and MP3 bets, your hand is almost worth calling with getting 7:1 on your call. Add in the fact that theres a very good chance that you have the best hand, and I think it's an easy bet.

Being that you didn't bet the Flop, I'd actually probably fold the Turn. The pot is very small and I do not want to pump a whole bunch of big bets into it to find out whether or not I am good.

I'd bet the River. After all the strength you have shown, he isn't going to raise you unless he has a pair of 8's badly beaten. If you check, he'll bet most hands that beat you, but he'll check through worse hands. A pretty clear case of the "Fk I am out of position" value bet where you'd check it through if you had the Button, but have to bet it because you don't.

-Brian

[Trix]

I´m not gonna fight for a pot that small. Maybe he tried to checkraise the flop, didnt like his J kicker, also have second pair, limped with AA-KK cuz he didnt wanna loose you, holds, 83s,53,99-TT, slowplayed 33,88,J3,J8,83...
I think its pretty clear that I dont raise 2BBs into a 2.5 BB pot with that many ifs..

[Trix]

Good point, bet flop. [img]/images/graemlins/grin.gif[/img]

[Henke]

I agree with Brian and Trix that I should probably have bet out on this flop. My plan was to just check-fold this one. However, when no one bet, I suspected that I indeed had the best hand. When SB bets the turn, I think there's a chance that he's either bluffing or paired the 5, so I try to isolate him with a raise.

When the turn comes (A) I'm thinking that MP3 might have chased with an A or he might have something (since he cold-called the turn) so the main purpouse of the check is to induce a bluff and to make sure I'm not reraised if he indeed has the A.

MP3 turns over Q3o and MHIG (and SB says wtf [img]/images/graemlins/smile.gif[/img])

[Brian]

Hi Henke,

Try not to be results-oriented. It worked out well this time, but don't make a habit out of putting 2 big bets into a 2 big bet pot with 2nd pair, weak kicker.

-Brian

[JPNet]

What do you do if you bet the flop and they both call?

You can bet the turn and the river and have 1 or both call again only to find that they were both afraid to raise with better hands. Then it costs you 2 1/2 bets to find out you were beat all the way, or lost on the river.

It seems to me that most of the time in this situation it has cost me money when one was ace chasing and the other had a higher pair that he wouldn't bet.

I am really interested in this one because I am afraid it is a leak for me. I usually check fold in this situation unless it improves to a good draw or trips.

[Brian]

Hi JPNet,

What to do in these types of situations is discussed in detail in HPFAP under the chapter of Semi-Bluffing. Sometimes it is correct to bet the Flop and then check and fold the Turn. Sometimes it is correect to keep on betting all the way through. It all depends on the texture of the board, what your opponent's "folding point" is, etc.

-Brian

[JPNet]

Yes, but HEPFAP talks about 2nd or 3rd pair with an overcard kicker, or str8 and flush draw, or a pair and a draw etc. In the case of 2nd pair, poor kicker, no other outs, in bad position, you semi-bluff, they both call, now what?