Cold Calling

[Sheriff Fatman]

I've been using Poker Tracker for 2 or 3 months now and have now amassed a sample of just over 12,000 hands (I work full-time so poker is a hobby rather than a profession). I'm making a steady if unspectacular 2.09BB per 100 hands overall so am comfortable that I'm a winning player and have read most of the major books at least once. I'm now trying to build bankroll to move up limits whilst trying to further my understanding of the game.

One area of my game I've been working on is to eliminate as far as possible my pre-flop cold calls. I'm now reviewing this area and would appreciate some thoughts on this.

None of the discussions re Poker Tracker stats I've seen seem to look at this area, but its an area that comes in for much criticism in individual hand reviews.

In 12,119 hands I've made pre-flop cold calls on 40 occasions. Gut feel tells me that this is a low figure compared to the average player but perhaps not when compared to the 2+2 population. These have generally been in situations where I'm in late position and the pot has been raised early. The two most frequent holdings where I do this (7 times each) are AKo (if its suited I'd be raising) and TT (which, for me, is a difficult hand to play). All of the other instances have been with large suited connectors, medium pocket pairs or a suited Ace and were dependent on the actual game at the time. Suited hands were played where a big pot looks to be developing, whilst the pairs were generally situations where the pot was likely to be heads up or 3 handed post flop.

My question now is where do I stand? Does anyone else look at this area? If so, how does my play compare? Is there an optimum level? (OK, I have many questions!)

My instinct tells me my figures are low in terms of frequency of cold calls. In borderline situations I've generally opted to fold or raise rather than call, and have had my usual share of right/wrong decisions. However, some players seem to have a total aversion to cold calling so, compared to some, I will propably appear to be a loose player.

Another stat I've looked at is evaluating the outcome of these plays using the filters in PT. So far my cold calls have resulted in a small profit so I'm reasonably pleased with my judgement so far. However, I've had a nagging feeling in some situations that I may be giving up too much.

Your thoughts would be appreciated. I've posted here rather than in the other forums as this is more of a general concept rather than a specific hand play or a discussion related solely to Internet play. Apologies if anyone thinks it belongs elsewhere.

Thanks

Sheriff

[Mike]

What you are asking is really more in line with game theory, optimum betting patterns, and deception. Cold calling has its place as does weak tight play, it just shouldn't hold a major place in your game.

Generally there are some very good hands that are cold calls that do not merit raising or folding. For example in some games you hold KQo in late middle position and three limp ahead of you. You generally shouldn't be raising and folding may also be the wrong thing to do.

Rarely cold calling is good against people who play against you more than once. They tend to remember how you play and it makes them play tighter which helps you judge the quality of your hand. On the down side, they can also tend to ignore your raises.

There are a worse ways to play than rarely cold calling, but there are some better ways than almost never cold calling too. Perhaps someone else wil have some firm ideas that may help you. gl

[Nate tha' Great]

I'm at about the same ratio as you, 34 cold calls in roughly 9000 tracked hands. Almost all of my cold calls are in the following situation:

1. I'm on the Button, or sometimes the CO.
2. The preflop raiser has loose raising standards.
3. I have a hand such as a suited connector that plays better multiway than heads up.

Like you, I've found these plays to be surprisingly profitable, though of course it's important to keep in mind all the usual caveats about sample size. Thirty-four instances is not many at all.

Certainly, you don't want to make a habit of it, but I think the dangers of the occasional cold call are greatly exaggerated. I'll be damned if it isn't worth two bets before the flop if I can get 4- or 5-way action with JTs and I've got the Button.

[LetsRock]

I don't have any stats on this, but I do have some general rules that I apply to cold calling. OF course there's many things to consider but in general, I'll cold-call with:

Suited Aces (from any position)
QQ-99 (from any position)
88-66 (from MP on)
Low PP (from late position or blinds)
AKo, AKs, (from any position)
KQs (from any position)
AQs, QJs, JTs (from med to late position)
AQo, AJ, AT (from late position or blinds)
med suited con (from blinds)
KJs and the like (from the blinds, occasionally from CO or button)

As I said, this isn't absolute, but it's my general guidelines. I like to stay under the radar with some of the hands that many here would 3-bet with. If I suspect more raises most of these become instant mucks unless there are lots of active players then I'm getting good odds (same odds I'd have gotten if all the same players just limped in) to see if the flop can build me a monster.

It also greatly depends on who's doing the raising and from where.

I'm not suggesting this is perfect - it's just my current game plan.

[Nottom]

That looks like way too many hands to be coldcalling with to me, and you really do need to 3-bet with AK, JJ, QQ.


Basically the only hands I have cold-called with in the past 17k hands or so are some small-medium pairs with a bunch of players already in the pot and AJs, AQs, or KQs after a weak raiser and a caller or 2 (and I didn't feel good about doing it).

[Nate tha' Great]

[ QUOTE ]
That looks like way too many hands to be coldcalling with to me, and you really do need to 3-bet with AK, JJ, QQ.

[/ QUOTE ]

Agreed. These three hands aboslutely need to be 3-bet, *especially* AKo.

[ QUOTE ]
Basically the only hands I have cold-called with in the past 17k hands or so are some small-medium pairs with a bunch of players already in the pot and AJs, AQs, or KQs after a weak raiser and a caller or 2 (and I didn't feel good about doing it).

[/ QUOTE ]

You shouldn't feel guilty about it. I'll routinely cold call with KJs or 98s, for example, in a multiway pot. Even if your hand is dominated, you generally have even or better preflop equity against a field of other plausible hands:

http://twodimes.net/h/?z=204593

If you also have good position and superior postflop skills, then I think you're giving up value by mucking these sorts of hands.

[Mike]

My standards are mostly the same. Playing B & M with a limited number of HE players may be why. If I raised or reraised many of the hands discussed as raising hands, I wouldn't get any action except from the rocks post flop unless someone held the nut.

Over aggression doesn't work well, when most of your competition is loose preflop and tough postflop - for me anyway. Of course reading online hands, this doesn't seem to be an issue.

[TwoNiner]

Cold calling with suited ace is the worse offender imo. I will cold call with alot of pairs if it looks like a large field

[Nottom]

I hate cold-calling, I absolutely hate myself whenever I do it. As such I have 53 coldcalls out of about 32K hands.

My biggest culprit is KQs followed by 88 and 99, most of the other pairs show up as do AQs and AJs and few other hands that I would have been most certainly better off folding. I'm a slight loser with coldcalls (down 0.15BB/hand), but the hands I know I shouldn't have played are the ones leading the loser list.

I might not be coldcalling enough, but my winrate isn't hurting all that much as a result. I am still of the opinion that for 90% of players if they never coldcalled they would be better off than they are now.

[Nottom]

[ QUOTE ]
Suited Aces (from any position)
QQ-99 (from any position)
88-66 (from MP on)
Low PP (from late position or blinds)
AKo, AKs, (from any position)
KQs (from any position)
AQs, QJs, JTs (from med to late position)
AQo, AJ, AT (from late position or blinds)
med suited con (from blinds)
KJs and the like (from the blinds, occasionally from CO or button)

[/ QUOTE ]

This is an example of a bad cold-calling strategy. If you just 3-bet or folded with 90% of that list I think your game would be much better off.

**guess I need to stop replying before finishing the thread, I had already responded to this post ... bah.